Interview with Brett Goodman, 11/30/2016

UW Oshkosh Campus Stories
Jon Mudlaff, Interviewer | uwocs_Brett_Goodman_11302016.m4a
Campus Stories Oral History Project (UWO Audio Series 51) |

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JM: Ok, so today is November 30th, 2016. It is 1:06 right now, and I am interviewing Brett Goodman over the phone. So Brett we'll get started with some background information. First off, where did you grown up?

BG: I grew up in suburban Milwaukee.

JM: Ok, and could you tell me about the community you grew up in?

BG: Well, I was born in Wauwatosa which is a community west of the city, but as a baby the family moved to Whitefish Bay and that's in the north shore of Milwaukee along the lakefront. We were there as a family until second grade and then moved north to Bayside, which is probably about five miles north of 1:00Whitefish Bay. It's the northernmost village before you leave Milwaukee County, and I then, the family stayed in Bayside for the duration of my schooling through grade school and high school and nothing unusual about the community. Small suburban, both Whitefish Bay and Bayside and I think I pretty much had a growing up period like a lot of kids, playing in the neighborhood, going to school, was involved in some sports and things, and pretty non-eventful.

JM: Alright, so did you have any brothers and sisters?

BG: Yeah, I have a sister who currently lives in New York that's seven years younger than me, and I have a brother that lives like I do in the Milwaukee 2:00area, and he's a year younger than I am.

JM: Ok, did they attend college also?

BG: Yes, my sister went to a small private school out east and I don't even remember where but after freshman year she transferred to Madison, University of Wisconsin Madison. My brother spent one semester of one year at University of Wisconsin Madison, and then transferred to UW Milwaukee and finished his undergraduate work there. My sister finished her undergraduate work in Madison.

JM: Alright, what about your parents? Did they attend college as well?

BG: My mom who is not alive, she did not graduate college. She may have attended 3:00a couple of semesters, and my dad is a dentist. He did his undergraduate work at UW Madison and he received his dental degree from Marquette.

JM: Ok, so growing up in your family, you moved around quite a bit. So what kind of like traditions or activities or routines did you family enjoy doing together?

BG: Well, you know I'm 67 so it goes back a long time, but most of the family activities I would say surrounded around, I remember as a kid they had something that is pretty much gone now called drive in movies, where you, well we'd go as a family and the movie screen was outdoors, obviously only open in the summer in 4:00this climate. And you'd pull up to the speaker stand and hook the speaker onto your window and the family would watch the movie. We also, like many families, took summer road trips--. a lot of summers. We also belonged to a club where I learned how to swim, and golf, and play tennis, and a lot of my summers were spent there. And you know, like a lot of kids, we had a group of kids in the neighborhood that during the after school and summers, we'd try to keep into some trouble but minor hopefully. And that was about it. Pretty typical of most kids I think.

JM: Yeah, ok. Going back to your parents though, you said your dad was a 5:00dentist, correct?

BG: Correct.

JM: What kind of work did your mom do?

BG: My mom was a full time mother. I believe before, I'm the oldest. I think before I came around or before she got married, she may have done some sort of clerical or secretary type work. But she did not work long after high school, other than I think she took some college classes, but she was a full time, as they use to call it, home maker and mother.

JM: Ok. Going back to your high school years, so you said you played sports. Could you describe or tell us what kind of sports you participated in?

BG: Sure. In high school I was on the swimming team for I believe three years; 6:00sophomore, junior, senior year, and I was a springboard diver and I did some swimming, but mostly diving. And I also unsuccessfully was on the track team for one or two seasons. That didn't work out so well. Swimming I was, that was something that worked well. And I was the, pretty small guy in high school. I was the trainer of the varsity football team. So I taped a lot of ankles and gave a lot of water to my friends that played on the team. And I also was an avid horseback rider, which wasn't related to school, it was separate and I did pleasure riding and I did some jumping and I also played some polo.

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JM: Oh, alright. So what about subjects in high school? What would you consider to be your favorite area of study growing up?

BG: Well I liked American history, I wish I remembered more of it, but I enjoyed American history. And I liked composition, I didn't like math, and probably like a lot of high school students I wasn't that enthralled with the whole deal, but those were the couple of areas that I liked the most.

JM: Ok. So I understand that you are a marketing major, right?

BG: Correct.

JM: So what made you decide to go into marketing?

BG: Well, when I first enrolled in Oshkosh I, as you know it's not necessary or I don't take believe you can declare a major until after your first year. I did 8:00know that I had, because my family was in business and I was interested in making money, I was pretty certain I wanted to be in business, go into the business school. And my preference leaned toward marketing. I didn't know a lot about marketing, I knew it had something to do with advertising and I--that area intrigued me and so I pretty much focused on going that direction and did end up in the business school with a major in marketing.

JM: Ok. You said that you were kind of a trainer for your high school football team, and since your dad was a dentist, did you ever have any thought in the medical field?

BG: I did not. I didn't think I had the science aptitude, and I didn't really have an interest. And I should also add that while my dad was a dentist, the 9:00family business was the funeral business, and that's what my dad did full time. And I also had no interest going into the funeral business, so my brother did that though.

JM: Ok. When did you really start thinking about going to college?

BG: I think, you know to be honest with you, the north shore of Milwaukee is like an upper-middle class community and I think it was almost by default that most of the kids were going to college. It was pretty much, almost as certain as that you were going to go to high school after grade school. So I'm not sure I was thinking about going as much as knowing as I would be going to tell you the truth.

JM: Ok, and I know you ended up going to UW Oshkosh, but what other schools did you look at?

BG: Well, I wasn't the most disciplined kid, and I wasn't a great student, and I 10:00knew I was going to school but I didn't put a lot of effort into it, and it turns out that my dad did my applications for me, and he selected Madison, Whitewater, and Oshkosh. It was important to him that I go to school in the state, because he felt we had a good education, good higher education system in Wisconsin that provided excellent value. He didn't think there was any reason to pay a premium to go to a private school or go out of state. So in those days, it wasn't--it was not difficult to get into Madison. So I was accepted at all three and I was a little afraid of the size of Madison because I was not a great high school student, and I had always heard that Oshkosh was a fun place to go and a good school, so--I hadn't heard much about Whitewater so, I wish I could tell 11:00you I put a lot of research into it, but it was sort of a gut play and I ended up in Oshkosh.

JM: Alright, what about your high school friends? Did they also go to college?

BG: Yes, I went to Nicolet and like I said, most people--high percentage of people that go to Nicolet still and even at that time went onto school. It was expected.

JM: Alright, so what years did you attend UW Oshkosh?

BG: Fall of 1967 to spring of 1971.

JM: Alright, and did you know much about the school before you attended?

BG: No, nothing except a little bit of its reputation. It was a big party school at the time, and it was pretty well known. I think much more so than a lot of 12:00the other state schools. Like I said, I really had barely even heard of Whitewater, but I definitely had heard of Oshkosh. And, so--I wish I could give you the smart answer like I did a lot of research and decided to select it because of a lot of well thought out reasons, but it was fairly impulsive.

JM: Alright, thinking back to your first weeks at Oshkosh, what were your first impressions of the school?

BG: Hmm--That's a good question. Trying to think, I was so scared to tell you the truth. I don't know what my impressions were. I was pretty nervous when I got dropped off there by my parents, but--I mean I liked it, but I was nervous 13:00about going to--going away to school, which probably a lot of other people are.

JM: Yup.

BG: I didn't have a lot of impressions. My impressions really grew as I became ingrained in the system and got used to it.

JM: Alright. Do you remember how your classes went your first semester?

BG: Well, to a certain degree I do. They--again I was nervous about whether I'd be able to cut the mustard or not so to speak, but the classes--you know at the time and it's probably the same still. You either have six week exams or midterm, and I think I had a lot of six week exams and you don't really know for 14:00sure until you start getting some results back. But I did start to study right away because I was nervous. And I think I enjoyed it, more than I thought I would, and I did ok and my confidence started to get a little bit better as we moved into the second semester.

JM: Ok. So would you say your grades perhaps improved throughout the years?

BG: My grades--almost on a linear basis improved from semester one to semester eight. I--My first semester at Oshkosh, I got three C's and two B's. I took five classes. And I thought I was brilliant based on what my expectations were. And like I said, I gained a little confidence and my last semester at Oshkosh were 15:00three A's and two B's. And as I say if you were to graph it, it's almost a linear--like a line just gradually going up. It got better as time went on and I became more familiar with how to study, started taking classes I had my interest in, et cetera.

JM: Alright, well it sounds like you were a pretty good student. Do you remember any particular professors that you had, that made an impact on your life?

BG: Well one thing I'd like to say is that the dean of the business school at the time, Clifford Larson, and I believe it would be easy for you to find. I believe it's L-A-R-S-O-N. I'm not positive. First name Clifford. He was long time dean of the school. Was probably the most unforgettable person that had the most influence on me. And I say that because he was the dean of the business school and he took a personal interest in me. I think he did with a lot of 16:00students. And I had him as a substitute teacher. He was a marketing person. He actually was a marketing consultant, and a PHD in business. He was a consultant before he went into education. And he's a very charismatic guy, and a great leader of the business school. And I really couldn't say enough about him. They had a fifty year anniversary celebration. I believe it was about a year ago that we attended in Oshkosh and I had a chance to--he passed away a number of years ago, but I had a chance to meet his family which was nice. And in addition to that, there were a number of professors that I really liked. I won't be able to spell his name, but for one or two of my marketing classes, I had a professor 17:00Dr. [Elder Gavi?] and probably could find a spelling in the archives or somewhere. And had another marketing professor Dale Molander. I had an economics professor that was absolutely outstanding and I believe his name was David [Loy?]. I'm trying--and an excellent outstanding--let's see--I had--you know I believe you still have to take some science classes, eight or ten credits in natural science or science, and I took physical geography and--boy his name is 18:00escaping me, but it was really an interesting class and I really, really enjoyed it. So I would say this, I found--oh Roberta Nelson. Management. Outstanding. Absolutely outstanding. She's the one that helped me make a decision about graduate school. The professors at the university I thought were very, very good. I had very few in--you know the four years of--eight semesters of school that I didn't think were good professors and I had a number of them that I thought were great.

JM: Alright. Going to talk about your life on campus. Did you commute every day or did you live in the dorms?

BG: I lived in the dorms for I think a couple years and an apartment for a couple of years. In round numbers I might have been in the dorms like two and a 19:00half years, but I don't specifically remember. I was in Nelson Hall my freshman year.

JM: Alright, and when you would go off campus or even on campus, where did you spend most of your time?

BG: Well, one thing, I was a little unique. I came home most weekends and I had a part time job that I worked at and I mentioned before that I played a little polo and that was in Milwaukee, and so during the week, Monday through Friday morning I tried to not have Friday or Friday afternoon classes. I was pretty busy studying. I never drank and Oshkosh was and probably still is known as a good drinking school, party school. But I did go out to the bars, place called Tosh's at the time, and the Andy's Library. And even though I didn't drink, I 20:00was a social person, so when I had time I'd go out or join some friends doing that. But I worked pretty hard during the week on my studies, and I mentioned I was on the swimming team. Maybe I mentioned I swam in high school, but I also was on the swimming team in Oshkosh.

JM: Ok

BG: So, you know, for about half of the school year I had practice and that took up a lot of time. So--and I would say where I really enjoyed spending time was the Union. More so on campus than off campus, so I spent a lot of time hanging out in the Union when I wasn't studying.

JM: Ok. Let's talk about your swimming team. Do you remember what years you participated on the team?

BG: Yes, sophomore and half way through senior year, and I left the team in the 21:00middle of the season my senior year to devote more time on my studies.

JM: Ok, and what was your favorite experience about the swimming team?

BG: Oh I think the--the ah--teamwork, the--you know, the relation, the friendships that you made and the away swimming meets, where we'd take the bus trips because you had time to socialize with your teammates and see other parts of the state.

JM: Alright. Do you recall your record throughout your college career, for the swim--

BG: My record relating to swimming or--what are you talking about?

JM: Yes, to the swim team.

BG: Very average. I was an average springboard diver and I did do, I did swim in some events. I was a very average athlete.

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JM: Alright. Do you still keep in touch with your friends that were on the swim team with you?

BG: I would have to say no. Probably never did like a lot of people, I mean you'll see what happens with you, but I would say I lost touch with most--most of my relationships in Oshkosh once I graduated and went on to graduate school.

JM: Ok. I also see here that a founding father for the Pi Sigma Epsilon fraternity. Is that correct?

BG: Right, yes it is.

JM: Ok, so what interested you in starting a fraternity?

BG: Well, as I recall--and I'm forgetting his last name. I want to say his name was John Beck, but I'm not positive about that. He was a guy who knew a lot of 23:00people. He was in the business school like I was. I believe we graduated in the same year and as I recall, he was a driving force and put some guys together that he knew were active in the business school, which I was that wanted to make this thing happen. And so, I got on board and we got it going, so--

JM: Do you recall--

BG: And it was my interest in marketing. That's a professional marketing fraternity, and to this day, and back then, I was interested in promoting the field of marketing and thought this could be something that would grow and continue in Oshkosh.

JM: So that whole experience--you learned a lot from it for your future, correct?

BG: Well specifically from the fraternity, I mean a little bit of organization things. It wasn't that difficult to put it together. And--but, it was just 24:00another piece of the college experience that was valuable, that was outside of just strictly academics.

JM: Alright. Do you remember what years or what year you founded the fraternity?

BG: It would have been my junior or senior year, but I'm not positive. If you went into the records as far as when that fraternity started, that would, that would tell you. So, it was probably--I'm going to guess '70 or '71. 1970 or 1971.

JM: Alright, just looking through here quick. So, can you tell me some things about the campus you specifically remember that were interesting to you on campus life?

BG: Sure. Now are you talking about the physical aspects of the campus? 25:00Buildings, the grounds, is that what you're talking about?

JM: Physical and social.

BG: Ok, well I love the Union. I really did. I spent most of my free time in the Union. I'm a social kind of person and so when I didn't have to study I would see a lot of friends and did a lot of table hopping. Never joined a fraternity, because I had friends in all of them. But, I very much liked the campus. My freshman year in fall, I use to study on the Union, I'm going to call it the Union terrace with a deck, which is now all torn up. The front of the Union.

JM: Yup.

BG: Can you picture that kind of second floor. I think they closed it. It's been closed off for years. But there was a deck there that you could sit outside on the deck on the second floor and you could catch some rays and do some reading 26:00and things like that, and I loved doing that in the fall, because you know, we have such nice fall weather in Wisconsin. At least most of the time. I always was impressed with Dempsey Hall. The quality of that old building and it's still a beautiful building. When I'm up there I'll take a walk through and enjoy that. I took geography and meteorology in Harrington, which is a fascinating building. Have you ever been in Harrington and seen all those old maps, and rocks, and artifacts in there?

JM: No, I have not, but I'll definitely check it out next time.

BG: I would suggest you take a walk through Harrington. It's just a fascinating, old building with really interesting things to look at in there and again I took two classes in there. Both of them my freshman year, and I still go back and 27:00walk through that building once in a while when I'm on campus. And I of course remember the pit classes in Clow for like--at that time the--the 101 type classes, like sociology, psychology, and of course that's all been redone now. And they still have pits. They seat a little bit less, but I particularly like the Union, Harrington, Dempsey--Dempsey Hall--were probably my favorite spots as far as what I remember that I enjoyed.

JM: Alright, since you were very sociable on campus, could you recall what other students were like? Were they just as sociable, or were they more shy?

BG: Well, I would have to say--that probably didn't see the shy ones. Maybe in 28:00the dorm but, you know, in the Union--well you know, people--I'm sure you go to your Union now. And--yeah Oshkosh is a--I mean it didn't get its reputation for being a party school for nothing, you know, it was a very social place and easy to make friends. It's a relatively large school. It was--it was 10,000 students when I went, and that's 40 some years ago now. So, yeah socialization was not an issue either on campus or off.

JM: Alright. Would you say that you were comfortable at the university then?

BG: That I was comfortable?

JM: Yes.

BG: After my first semester or two semesters, very comfortable. I was nervous my 29:00first year.

JM: Ok, that good to hear then. So--when you went off campus, you said you went to the bars quite a bit to socialize with friends, and we know you didn't drink as you said earlier. How was that whole experience for you? Did you enjoy it a lot, or?

BG: I think it was just basically--it was the Union at night so to speak, you know. You go to the Union during the day when you have some time and wanted to socialize and grab a friend or even by yourself go to a bar. At that time, the drinking age was 18, so there were a lot, even though I didn't drink, there were a lot of people going to the bars that were freshman. So, there were always people you know and I would say that--it was just another way to get out and see people, socialize. Meet people, meet girls, you know.

JM: Yup.

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BG: The usual things.

JM: Alright, were there any other places off campus that you would go to?

BG: Now I have got to tell you, I was rarely--rarely went anywhere else in the city so to speak. I was pretty much on campus and the bars at that time were on the strip, you know right immediately south of Scott and Gruenhagen, where--I forgot the name of it, I was just in it two weeks ago, but you know, there's the strip. I don't know, what's the name of the bar?

JM: Kelly's? Or--

BG: It might have been Kelly's or it was another one. But, yeah right on that strip there. Yeah.

JM: Alright. Going back to about the social life on campus, how was the male to female ratio?

BG: Well, I don't remember the numbers, but I would say there were plenty of 31:00both. In other words, I would say it was fairly even. Whether it was 40:60, or 55:45, or 51:49, I really don't recall but, if you were looking for girls, there were plenty girls. If you were looking for guys, I mean it was a good mix.

JM: Alright, and what were the--what was it like to be a man on campus? Were men and women treated differently?

BG: You know, in my classes--no, I don't remember any difference. Now, when I was in the business school at that point, there were less women than men in the business school. However, there were women in my classes, and I didn't detect any difference on terms of ways they were treated by the students, or by the 32:00instructors or professors. And of course today I believe the ratio is much closer to 50:50. But, there were women in my classes and of course in the non-business classes, then it was fairly even. Why, as I said like I think the university was in general, and no I don't remember a lot of issues with--you know, women or men being treated differently or unfairly. I didn't observe it. You know, you talk to women, they might be a better gauge of it. But, I didn't observe it, and in my work that I did with group work and some of my classes, and teamwork that we would breakdown to. I don't recall anyone treating people very differently.

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JM: Ok. So, did you have any--a girlfriend at the time you at the university?

BG: Yeah, I had um--let's see. My freshman year--trying to think--I think I kind of played the field and then in my--wasn't until my senior year that I think I was going with someone regularly. And actually my junior year I had a steady girlfriend and I was a junior and she was a senior in high school in Milwaukee. And then she went to Oshkosh her freshman year, which was my senior year. So for those two years I had a regular girlfriend, and before that it was different 34:00girls you'd go out with. No one in particular, no one for a real long time.

JM: Ok. So, where there any--on campus at the time--were there any big issues, whether they were political, cultural, educational, that you can recall?

BG: Well the biggest issue, I was there for the famous one. Are you aware of when the black students went on strike and--

JM: Yeah, Black Thursday.

BG: And they wanted to strike. That Black Friday or whatever they call it. And what was interesting was at the time, I think that I was a senior that year, and I ended up--they were calling for a strike. A student strike, and I did a poll of the student body. I stood out on Algoma and surveyed people. It was my own idea to do this, because I was curious if the strike would be successful or not, 35:00and I ended up doing a poll. I believe I found that--and I don't remember how many people I polled, but it was--you know, it was well over 100. And I delivered the results to the chancellor's office. Might have been called the president at that time named, Roger Guiles. And I don't think I even got to see him. He was very different then. The chancellors, or presidents kind of hid out in their office in--in Dempsey, whereas the last two chancellors at Oshkosh that I knew personally--and you may or may not have seen this or be aware of this, they're very involved in the campus community. You know, they show up at places, they go to sports, they're involved with alumni, they go to the Rec Center. But, at that time it was interesting because my poll showed that the vast majority of students wouldn't strike. I don't think there was any strike. But of course 36:00there was a big sit in, and I believe a number of students were expelled. In fact, the guy who I was--the guy who I was friendly with, we use to eat with him and his girlfriend in the Union cafeteria at the time. He was one of the--one of--African American students who was doing that sit in or whatever, and I believe he was expelled. And then he had to come back to Oshkosh to finish.

JM: Ok. Were there any other campus issues? Whether they were on other campuses, such as the Kent State shooting, were I believe around that time.

BG: Well actually now that you mention it, so--this was during the Vietnam War, and when I was in Nelson Hall, there was a big demonstration or protest where the war protestors were marching down Algoma and the National Guard or police 37:00had their riot gear on. But it did not get out of hand. I remember the Kent State thing, and of course people were talking about it because it was pretty shocking, but it didn't change a lot of things or you know, it was mostly just conversation about it--Trying to think of what else. I saw Richard Nixon at the Pioneer Hotel, speak when he was running for president in 1968. I saw George Wallace downtown, who ran for president, and I don't remember if it was the same year or it was later. So it was some interesting events in Oshkosh, and I believe the Nixon thing--I have it--I was taking a class. I think a class in 38:00debate or something like that, where the class went to it as a class activity.

JM: Oh, alright. I'm going to go back to something I missed earlier that I see you have written down on your sheet of paper. It says that you were a part of the School of Business Project Leadership Position. Is that correct?

BG: Yeah. That was just a generic description, meaning that I took a leadership position in a number of things in the business school. One of which probably was founding father of the marketing fraternity. But we also--and I lead some other projects, but our real major one was for my marketing promotions class. And we had--it was either that or consumer behavior. It was one of those two classes. And it was a national contest sponsored by Ford Motor Company. And I don't know 39:00if you've ever heard of a car called the Pinto. It was a disaster.

JM: Yup, I've heard of it.

BG: It was their first entry into the small car market. They did it because that was when there was starting to be some gas shortages, and the Japanese imports were taking, all of a sudden, taking away a big share of the market from the American made cars. And Ford sponsored a contest where 500 colleges around the country competed and Ford actually gave us a Pinto to use. And the--there were two sections of the class I was taking. And it broke into four competing groups, and each one of us did a project to develop a promotion plan. A complete marketing promotion plan for the Pinto, and this was a project that went from the beginning to the end of the semester. It was a major, major effort, and I 40:00took on the leadership position in one of those four groups. And it was a great learning experience and not only applying what I was learning in marketing, but in leadership, and getting along with people. You know if you've ever worked in a group or committee, you know that some people carry their weight and other people are slackers. And so, it even went down to experience how to get somebody who's not contributing to step up, and we did some interesting things. We drove the Pinto right into the library mall area. The walkway between the Union and the library, and we did a survey where we had--I figured that would be a good place to stop a lot of students, and we had them filling out questionnaires, looking at the--looking over the car and evaluating it. And we also ran a 41:00contest that, if they participated in the survey and put their name on the survey, we would draw a survey and it was called "Win a Pinto for a Day." And I also had an opportunity to promote that with the Advance Titan, who ran an article promoting the survey and then ran a post article when we were giving the--presenting the winner with the car keys. So it was a lot of fun and it was probably the best single, overall learning experience I had in the whole four years.

JM: Alright, well it sounds like you learned a bit at your time here at Oshkosh. Is there any other learning experience you'd like to add to that?

BG: No. I think, you know, it's hard to summarize four years. I would just say that--I thought the school was great. Great teachers, great campus. It 42:00definitely made a big contribution to helping me, you know when I got out and whatever degree of modest success I achieved the school was very helpful. Made a helpful contribution to that, and I'm involved still as you may know with the Chancellor's Advisory Council, and I'm on the Alumni Board of Directors. So, I'm in Oshkosh often. I enjoy getting up there, and was very happy to see Sage get developed because the School of Business definitely needed a better facility, an updated facility.

JM: Ok. So you went to graduate school after you graduated Oshkosh, is that right?

BG: Correct.

JM: Where did you go for that?

43:00

BG: Went to Madison and I got an MBA there.

JM: Ok, and how did you feel when you finished all of your college?

BG: Well, you know something? I never finished. I mean, I--surprise answer. I did some post graduate work after my MBA in Madison and Milwaukee, and I'm a lifelong student. I--one of my two businesses is a small landscape business, and we have a lot of Hispanic people that work for us. And also in the marketing area, which is my other business, marketing consulting. You know the growth of the Hispanic market has been very significant since I was in school, and so I studied Spanish for quite a few years. You know, I would take a class late in the day each semester for, oh about twelve years I think, so I could at least 44:00some extent speak a second language. I took a variety of marketing related classes, and I've also been an adjunct instructor in marketing at, at four colleges and universities in the Milwaukee area over the years. And currently I'm staff at UW Milwaukee in the graduate school of business.

JM: Ok. That sounds like quite a lot you've done then since you've graduated college.

BG: And I'm an active volunteer which is something else that I believe in. Of course my service to the university at Oshkosh and the chancellor's advisory council and the alumni board is volunteer work. But, I'm also involved with the Salvation Army, and I'm involved with an organization here that goes into high schools and teaches financial literacy so, yeah I'm spread thin as they say. I have a lot of different interests and things that I do. My marketing consulting 45:00work has slowed down in recent years, so I've stepped up with the teaching and the volunteer work, and it's worked out well.

JM: Alright. So, after you graduated what jobs did you first receive?

BG: Well, when I finished my MBA, I got a job in advertising for a large Milwaukee ad agency, and after a year I was getting restless in Milwaukee and I applied--actually wrote a letter to the senior vice president of marketing at Pepsi and they--he read my letter and they flew me out there and gave me a job offer. And I ended up deciding to stay in Milwaukee and start business on my own. That's what I did and that's what I've been doing for forty years ever since. Fortyish years. And I've operated two small businesses, a landscape 46:00business, and a marketing consulting business, along with the other interests that I've described to you. The teaching and the volunteer work. So I never had a lot of jobs. Had a lot of different clients, customers over the years, but not a lot of jobs. One job.

JM: Alright, would you say the job market was big back then though?

BG: Let's see--well it was prerecession. We had a recession in '73, '74. So, I think the market was pretty decent. My first job with the ad agency was like you hear from many people, networking. My dad knew the guy who was the owner of the ad agency and he introduced me to him. And during my senior year at Oshkosh, when I would be in town, I took a liking to him and him to me, and he ended up giving me a job offer before I even really applied for a job. And actually I stand corrected. That was the year I was in Madison doing my MBA that I met him. 47:00When I'd be home on the weekends, and so I never did any serious job interviewing.

JM: Alright, well would you say that your time here at Oshkosh helped prepare you for your life after college?

BG: Yeah. I think as you recall, I mentioned that I think it made a major contribution to it, and that's why I've stayed involved at the university, and that's why I give the university money every year.

JM: Alright.

BG: Payback.

JM: So, you would say that you give quite a bit back to the university due to it helping you out in your future?

BG: Yeah. I call it payback. It's a place that did a lot for me, and you know, I want to see the university continue to do well and I support it every year with 48:00a--what I think is a pretty generous contribution. More so in recent years, but I've always given to Oshkosh, and when they were raising money for Sage Hall, I actually made a major contribution for that. In fact my name is on the second floor lobby with the study area, with about ten other people that funded that part of the building.

JM: Alright, that's pretty cool.

BG: Yeah, it's kind of fun to go up there and look at it, to tell you the truth.

JM: Alright, well our interview is winding down, so is there any last advice you'd like to give any current or future students here at Oshkosh?

BG: Yeah. Find the right balance with your studies and your social life. I saw too many people, especially that first year, where they get a little carried 49:00away getting away from home and they get off to a bad start and they don't finish or they don't do well. And I think take advantage of the fact that it's a tremendous school with a lot of good resources; teachers, facilities, and as I say--balance things, balance things. That would be the most important advice I have, and not a lot else.

JM: Alright, well I'd like to thank you for your time today. You did a great job with this interview.

BG: Well I hope it helped. I hope you get a good score, or whatever you need to do on it. But, I gave you the best answers I could. It's been a long time, you know. Anyhow, maybe I'll catch you for a cup of coffee or something when I'm up in Oshkosh. I get up there pretty frequently, so I'll keep your contact information.

50:00

JM: Alright, yeah I'd be up for that.

BG: Ok, that's great. I will try to touch base next time I'm going to be up there and have a little time. Maybe I can catch you in the Union.

JM: Alright, well thank you once again.

BG: Ok, good luck to you Jon.

JM: Ok, buh bye.

BG: Ok, bye.

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