JW: All right so this will be the beginning of the interview. And just forthe record can I get your full name.
EH: Eileen Hammer Housfeld and Housfeld is spelled H-O-U-S(as in Samuel)-F(as inFranklin)-E-L-D(as in dog).
JW: All right. So now that we got that let's just get into some backgroundquestions. So did you grow up in Wisconsin.
EH: Yes I did. I grew up in Marytown which is a small hamlet unincorporated,straight across Lake Winnebago and six miles inland Across from Oshkosh.
JW: nice so did you have any experiences before in Oshkosh not necessarily1:00through the university. Have you ever heard of--.
EH: No I did not.
JW: So you just kind of stayed around your town over there.
EH: Fond du Lac was the county seat-- is the county seat for that area. And soyou I went to a larger town for things it was Fond du Lac and I went to New Holstein High School which is in Calumet County actually
JW: Alright, I'm familiar with that high school, so then as a kid going into--or as a young adult going into college or even just your childhood what did you want to be when you grew up and moved on into the real world?
EH: I thought I was going to be a school teacher. And as time went on I reallythought I was going to teach Spanish.
JW: Had you taken Spanish in high school? What was your experience with that?.2:00
EH: I--When I went to grade school it was a Catholic grade school with--withnuns the
Sisters of St Agnes and --My-- the teacher that impressed me the most was--hername now is Sister
Dolores [Taddy] T-A-D-D-Y. I'm not sure, might be T-O-D-D-Y, at that time shewas known as Sister Peter and she had been a missionary in Nicaragua and she taught us a little bit of Spanish when I was in grade school. So I took some Spanish. I took Spanish classes actually quite a bit of Spanish in high school. Yes
JW: Wow, that's really interesting because I feel like it wasn't as prevalentback then but that's really cool.
JW: So then you said you went to a Catholic school. Were you the first in your3:00family to attend college? Did your parents or did you have any siblings that attended.
EH: I'm the oldest child of six and my mother had gone to University of Oshkoshwhen it was Oshkosh teachers college.
JW: Oh wow. So that's very interesting.
EH: In fact the man who was dean of students when I first arrived there Dr.[Settinau] what was his first name. I don't remember--[Settinau]. He was actually an administrator on campus when my mother went to school there.
JW: So he'd been there for quite a while.
EH: Yeah he was he was an old man. When I was there
JW: And then it changed into Guiles right? Chancellor Guiles?
EH: No, [Settinau] was dean of students he wasn't a chancellor.
JW: Oh okay. Alright I got you . So your mother went to college. What was your--4:00
EH: She went to the teacher college. And she was an elementary school teacheruntil she --I don't know-- until she had children I guess.
JW: So then do you think that influenced your view on college. Like what wasyour idea of college before you went off actually to Oshkosh?
EH: In our family it was assumed that we would all go to college. It was part ofthe family culture you know talked about as a given that we would all go to college.
JW: So higher education was a standard for you and your family a family.
JW: All right. That's very cool. Because I know we [Class] were talking abouthow sometimes it was not the case back then. But that's nice.
JW: So then what made you choose Oshkosh? Because I know that you mentioned5:00earlier, in our earlier talks setting up this interview, they didn't have journalism when you started. So like what. I know you wanted to be a teacher also. Is that why you chose Oshkosh for teaching?
EH: I chose Oshkosh because it was close and yet still far enough away, youknow, it was a comfortable distance. And because when my dad had gone there.
JW: So it was kind of the legacy.
EH: Alma mater.
JW: Alma mater, Yes. So there was. And did you like know anything about theacademics was it known for its academics or was it just solely based on how close it was but also how far away it was
EH: Yes, academics wasn't an issue one way or the other I was going having I6:00just knew I'd go to college--I chose that one and that was it.
JW: Alright, so what was your major going into Oshkosh then. Or what was yourintended major
EH: My intended major was English. But I believe I graduated with an Englishmajor. I think I had a double major at the end.
JW: All right. And double major with journalism. Is that correct or--
EH: That's correct.
JW: All right. So then kind of like now that we've got some lead-up, going toOshkosh-because I know you said it wasn't that far--but it still must have been a big step. How did you feel on the first day of UWO? What was the--what was your energy like?
EH: Excited, yeah, I was happy about it. I wasn't afraid. You know my--my7:00dearest friend from high school was my dormitory roommate at Evans Hall.
JW: Oh she was, nice.
EH: So--that--you know that made it more comfortable and just normal. To Be there.
JW: So you stayed in Evans Hall was that gender segregated hall? Because I knowthey did have some gender segregation.
EH: Are you kidding? In 1965 it was all gender segregated.
JW: Yeah I just wasn't necessarily sure when they started--.
EH: We had, we had house parents or whatever they were called, and we had curfews
JW: Oh you did?
EH: Excuse me.
JW: Oh yeah.
JW: So you're. So you like--it was gender segregated.
JW: What were the curfews like? What time was it?8:00
EH: 11:00 p.m.
JW: 11:00 p.m. You can't be back later.
JW: What would happen if you got [Unclear].
EH: I think maybe on weekends it was late right. I don't really recall.
JW: So you could go out--.
EH: I don't remember what would happen.
JW: And sorry what was that?
EH: I don't remember what would happen if we, if we came in late, I don't thinkI ever did. So I don't remember any consequences.
JW: And so like. What do you guys think of that curfew? Did you--I mean I knowyou said you were never late for it--you followed it. Did you wish it was not in place or, stuff like that? How did you feel at the time?
EH: To me it was it was not an issue. Let me--I would like to explain a littlebit about how the campus was when we first arrived there.
JW: All right.
EH: we--our class was the first huge baby boomer class at Oshkosh, and9:00consequently there was a building boom going on. Evans Hall and Stuart Hall were both brand new dormitories. There were even--even construction cables from heavy equipment or whatever there were--the completion of construction was just happening when we came on campus. There was no landscaping. It was muddy because there was rain that September. So there was a food service building that I think was just being completed. There was a lot of construction going on-- to 10:00accommodate the influx of students. So from the standpoint of the physicality of the place that's what was going on from the standpoint of the culture-- In my freshman year it was still almost an early 1960s or late 1950s mentality the students are docile, they obeyed the rules and that sort of thing. And as the Vietnam War ramped up--the media and the general knowledge of the Vietnam War 11:00ramped up--and a lot of students, male students, were on campus just to get out of being in the Army. The Culture shifted probably a little bit by the following year and more so at the time I was a senior.
EH: So the era that I was there, from 1965/66 through 1968/69, the whole tenorof the campus changed dramatically.
JW: Yeah that must have been there must have been surreal experience how youknow the traditional aspects of American culture clashing with the new. That is a very special--special experience.
EH: And on reflection yes, during experience of it--it just was what it was.12:00
JW: Yeah. Yeah I definitely know what you mean there. Wow. So I guess you didyou explained that wonderfully how campus was at the time. Let me ask you another question.
EH: So just a little bit on student life--were there--was drinking allowed indorms because I know it definitely is now for--I mean obviously the drinking age was that was if it was.
Was it a common thing?
EH: No, no. There was no alcohol in the dorms.
JW: So it was dry campus or dry dorms?
EH: Well I don't really know but it wasn't allowed. And I never saw any--any13:00alcohol on campus--People went out to the--It was an 18, you know, the drinking age beer was 18. So people went to see there was a bar called the College Inn and there was another bar I don't remember it. Anyway there were a couple of bars that were catered to the campus and that's where the students went to drink.
JW: And that's on Wisconsin Street. That was on Wisconsin Street?
EH: It was in downtown Oshkosh.
JW: OK. Do you remember anything about I know. I'm not sure if this is aroundyour time that they coined it but they called it 'the strip' right on Wisconsin's street. They had bars and stuff. Kelly's was there.
EH: They didn't call it that but that's where the bars were.
JW: Ok so students didn't have any need to because if they were 18--which I'm14:00assuming everyone was in college--they could just go to the bars instead of in the dorms right.
JW: Yes that definitely makes sense. So what did you--like what were yourfriend's activities like what you and your friend's activities what did you guys what did you guys do for fun and entertainment?
EH: We went to the bars, what do you think we did.
JW: Kind of walk me through what a typical night going out to the bars--if youwill-with your friends like what would you guys do?
EH: Flirt, dance, have some beers, walk home in the cold weather. I remember15:00walking home and it was pretty cold.
JW: I don't think it's changed much, actually. That's funny. So like I guesswhat else did you do besides going to the bars, like say you have some free time on the weekday. What would you and your friends go do? Do you remember any activities you would partake in?
EH: Not so much my friends and I were serious students. I think we--we teamed upwith another two gals that were in our dorm. One of whom pledged a sorority. I think I looked at a sorority, but chose not to pledge and rather early in my freshman year--I have a good story about this--but I got involved with the 16:00student newspaper--at that time it was called the Advance--didn't become the Advanced Titan until, I don't know my junior year or senior year - -
JW: I think it was 1968.
EH: Excuse me.
JW: I think it was 1968. I remember looking at--.
EH: okay, alright, So--so my recollection is--is that free time was spentstudying or going to the library or going to the office--the newspaper office. I don't recall that we would take hikes or participate in sports you know--spontaneous volleyball games. I don't remember anything like that he said.
JW: So you said you're a pretty serious student. How was your first year of17:00classes that UWO kind of going back to the beginning of UWO for you? How did you like your classes?
EH: They we're fine. I'm the type of person who is a good student so--so I justwent to classes took notes gets good grades. That was how I lived my life.
JW: So you definitely worked for and do you think you made your friends based onthe same criteria of you, like the hardworking students. Stuff like that, how did you make your friends.
EH: really just associations so they were dormitory friends and there werejournalism friends. As time went on pretty much. Oh, I was and I don't know whether I want to say this or not. 18:00
EH: I was in young Republicans back then so I made some friends in thatorganization, The politics started getting interesting as the Vietnam War geared up--and for I don't remember I guess because my parents Republicans I was a young republic candidate and there were young Democrats. We all knew each other and that sort of thing. And so we would go to meetings. There were even young Republican conventions that I went to this time.
JW: So you'd say. I mean when did you join the Young Republicans. Was that yourfirst year?
EH: I don't remember, no probably not.
JW: So would you say because of the 1960s and what was just beginning to youknow to kind of get a little bit riled up like being the political culture. Do 19:00you think that the students were more in tune with that? You know there are more involved in politics.
EH: Some yes and some were just interested in drinking. Frankly it was adrinking school. But a friend of mine was on student council so and then there were people who were involved in something called Students for Democratic Society which was more of a fringe outrageous type of club and you know being that I was--was involved with the newspaper the student paper. As time went on I just was on the fringes of all of that observing it and writing about it; more so than even being involved.
JW: So also I know you mentioned Greek life a little bit earlier. What was,20:00like, what was Greek life. How was it viewed on campus? Was it big? Was it really just kind of something that people might have done, yeah.
EH: Well there were--there were different. I want to use the word 'cliques'interest groups so to speak and so the Greek people were one-- And maybe the people who were more interested in going to bars all the time or another I don't know I don't remember really dividing them, but--I-- when I read, I recall that the campus leadership, for instance on the student council, was probably consisted of a fair number of Greeks. And so there--there were leaders. The 21:00Greeks were more or less considered leaders. I would think on campus at that time.
JW: So they were kind of influential in what the camp did and stuff.
EH: To some degree yeah not fully. Yeah to some degree they were they were known.
JW: And then also I remember because you said in one of your room--or dorm mateswas in a sorority, And just in general, all your friends do you have any memorable experiences with them that you'd care to share anything that still sticks with you today?
EH: Pillow fights, we would have pillow fights.
JW: So you would just meet up in a dorm and have pillow fights?
EH: No We'd be hanging out in somebody's room and goofing around and having a22:00pillow fight you know just goofy stuff.
JW: That is really fun. Yeah. And then also would you say--I know you alreadytalked about a little bit about the environment on campus--but would you say when you got there and even going through it all of UWO, like your career at UWO would you say the environment was friendly or was it hostile at some points. I'm sure I'm sure it got to that but. Yeah. Would you think about that?
EH: By and large it was friendly. There are a couple of seminal things that Iwant to share before the end of this interview one of which had to do with the influx of African-American students probably in 1967 or so and then there 23:00was--it came to a crisis In late 68' and I was I was right in the middle of that covering it.
JW: Yes I will be covering that: November 21st?
EH: Yes Black Friday-- or was it Black Thursday
JW: Yeah Black Thursday I get that mixed up too.
EH: Yeah. So--so yes. The--I always felt that the students are friendly andeverything I didn't ever feel antagonistic but I did feel--it's more on reflection--but the administration wasn't--the higher administration-- wasn't 24:00psychologically prepared for the large influx of baby boomers and the overtones of the Vietnam war that affected the campus as well. And then the influx of AfricanAmericans on top of that; the administration was--was-- They still had a 1950s mentality about it, it was really really--really hard for them to connect to with the rapid shifts in culture that happened on campus during those years. It was it was amazing. I didn't understand it at the time. But on reflection Yeah I was it was it was a huge shift.
JW: So you'd say they were kind of out of touch with the student body.
EH: Sure they were.
JW: Out of out of favor even?25:00
JW: That is very interesting because such a--so rapid. Like you said such arapid change within five years. Not even. Wow. I can't imagine so. I know you also--here actually I'll get into it another question first. So just some personal questions like what was your favorite music around then and also like what was the most popular music during that time. I know the 60s and all those things are remembered for the music. A lot of the times as well. So if you could share.
EH: Music was also going through a change at that time. So it was--it was the26:00Supreme, Diana Ross and The Supremes and that sort of thing initially and more melodic tunes. And--and then and then the Beatles came on the scene and while they--they came on the scene maybe in 1964 but they became very popular and if you listen to the Beatles music it changed over the course of those four years to become more radical and the Rolling Stones came in And you know so. So the music shifted in that time into the early 60s music was a lot different than the late 60s music.
JW: Yeah, like Motown in the mid-60s or early 60s and then more because youcould call it like counterculture rock
EH: Right, rock.
JW: Or stuff like that, yeah. So you think that. I mean I just see maybe the27:00student attitude. I mean I'm not saying one influenced other but the student attitude changed like in correlation with the music. So they got more radical--
EH: Could be, could be, and you know it was it was the times it wasn't thiswasn't a-Oshkosh wasn't an isolated campus. Maybe it had been as in the 1950s early 1960s but by the mid1960s pretty much everybody knew what was going on everywhere around the country. And so this was part of a national shift to--in mentality and psychology rather than just something that happened in Oshkosh.
JW: So it was a countrywide thing. So and I know you brought up the Vietnam War28:00because that is also very integral part of the 60s and I know for a college campuses nationwide because of the age of the draft and all those things, personally did you know anyone that went to college and you know went to college because to get out of the draft and stuff like that. How did it affect them? How do you think it changed their--their lives?
EH: Good question. I can think of one individual--one young man who probablywould not have gone to college, were he not trying to get of the war. And 29:00[interruption] excuse me. So but when he left, he graduated his grades weren't that great. To my recollection the best of my knowledge he ended up in a job that really would not have required a college education anyway. So I'm not sure that it accomplished much of anything in his life except I don't think he ever went into the Army. Other than that I can't think of any individual--myself--that would've gone to college, But to go to college because they were draft dodging and as a result it changed their life. You know I don't 30:00know anybody like that.
JW: So people, because of the Vietnam War, It almost incentivized college alittle bit more It seems like maybe not necessarily like for an actual reason to going to college more or less getting out of Vietnam War.
EH: no, there was that for guys, there was that, but not for every guy, youknow, but for some.
JW: And I know also that if your grades, correct me if I'm wrong, that if yourgrades got below a C average you would be eligible for the drafts, do you think that was something that was nerve racking for students, were you aware of it at the time?
EH: I didn't know that was even--If I knew it at the time I don't rememberit--that that was some kind of gauge or measure of anything. 31:00
JW: OK-- All right [We're going to move on here] All right so getting into alittle bit more about your majors. I know you're really active in the realm of journalism even in you know the organizations. So how did you get involved in the cash advanced or the advanced Titan or and-- and did were you in any other organizations?
EH: I nominally was involved--was a member of some other organizations probablybut my main focus was my main participation was on the student newspaper.
JW: So tell me a little bit about how you got into the student newspaper like32:00what what drew you towards it?
EH: Here's one of my stories.
JW: All right.
EH: I was dating a young man who was a junior and he was more serious aboutbeing a student than I was. I--I was I was a good student anyway so I didn't worry about my grades. So on a Wednesday night that was a drinking night. Wednesday night's Fridays and Saturdays--so I wanted to go out to the bar and he wanted to go out to the library. So he said I tell you what, the student newspaper I know who the editor is. Her name is Sandy Kelm (K-E-L-M) and she's 33:00the editor of the student newspaper and I know that she needs some help with the paper and the Office of the student newspaper was in the upstairs of the student union. So he said I'm going to go to the library and study. And why don't you go to the student newspaper upstairs in the union and introduce yourself and tell her. I suggested you come and then I will buy you an ice cream cone in the student union at-I don't know the 10 o'clock or something you know. So he bribed to me by an ice cream cone, to not go out drinking and to go to the student newspaper. So I did. I went to the student newspaper and Sandy put me to work taking a press release from that came out of the publicity department of the university and--and 'tightening it up' or editing it down to--to get rid of some 34:00of the fluff and to make it into a little article for the student newspaper it took me a long time to write--to edit down that article, But it appealed to me I was always a good note taker in school and in high school and I could write term papers well and that sort of thing. So it clicked for me to do that kind of work. So I
stayed on the student newspaper and by the following year I was the editor andthen the year after that I was the editor that's one of the changes took place in the journalism department and in the student newspaper as well.
JW: So you had no idea that you would have necessarily wanted to do journalism beforehand?35:00
JW: So was it was just almost by chance actually.
EH: Now here's the--the rest of the story. The young man who bribed me with anice cream cone.
EH: We dated and then he graduated and went off to the Peace Corps and Ifinished college and went to grad school and we reconnected down in Milwaukee at UWM and he was in grad- He was back from the Peace Corps and in grad school at that time. And we dated again but he was spoiled by having been in Central America and the warm weather and so he got a teaching certificate and wanted to move to California to teach and so we drove out to California together and then 36:00I came back and took a job. I had already had a job lined up at the Milwaukee Sentinel at the time. And we both married different people and both of our spouses passed away and then we reconnected. And I married him and that's why I'm out in California.
JW: Oh my goodness, Wow.
EH: I know
JW: That's--that's a journey that's amazing.
EH: It's what happened.
EH: So his name is Ken--Kenneth Housfeld (H-O-U-S-F-E-L-D) He was, he was aneconomics and political science major and International Studies and he was very 37:00close to Dr. Arthur Darken. I don't know if that name sounds familiar.
JW: It does. I think he did some study on--
EH: Dr. Darken was a well-known professor on campus and we're still in touchwith him.
JW: Wow, so you still have some lasting relationships. I can see, from UWO.
EH: you would say
JW: So, I know you just had a really great story right there. Do you have anyother memorable experiences from journalism? You know maybe some, you know some that still sticks with you like wow I really experienced that.
EH: I want to give you a sound clip that I thought of as I was thinking aboutthis interview and this is what I want to say. The journalism department was 38:00born with the baby boomer--boomers let me start over. Because I think it's a good one. The Journalism department was born with the baby boomers and it was fathered by Dr. David [Lippert], now so here's--here's the story in 1965/66 the advance through this paper was--was letterpress which means the way it was printed as--as it would go to a printer in the community. They would they would use hot lead and the old fashioned way of printing our deadlines were--a deadline was Wednesday night for a newspaper that came out the following week, 39:00Friday morning. So there was a whole eight day interval between when our copy had to go to the printer and when the newspaper was printed which was totally ridiculous.
JW: Yeah, that the must seem kind of slow I guess to get the news out.
EH: [unclear] and which means it wasn't a timely newspaper it all was--Andessentially the information the newspaper was a rewrite of the press releases that came out of the publicity office of the college as well as reports from one of the members of the Student Council on what happened to the student council met on Thursdays. So the reports were about two weeks old by the time they got 40:00reported in the newspaper and so it was really, the newspaper was really not news there was more of a publicity--announcements and that sort of thing. But it wasn't really news. And so we went along that way and 1965/66 and then in 1966 Dr. [Lippert] was hired. And I think he was hired to start the Journalism department but anyway he was hired to teach journalism--before then journalism was taught as a minor in the English department for people who wanted to be 41:00English teachers in high school and advise high school student newspapers. So there was some journalism classes that were taught. but it was along the lines of I don't know if it's in the education department, it might have been even, I don't know, But anyway it was taken by students who were in education and English for the purposes of being student newspaper advisors in high school. So Dr.[Lippert] was hired to be a journalism teacher. But I think--I don't really know what the contracts or what the conversations were, but that he had been a reporter in Madison and then he worked in state government for a little while as well. He came aboard and taught journalism--was the adviser to the student 42:00newspaper, which was still called the Advance in 1966/67, and did whatever behind the scenes things were necessary to get journalism established as a major.
JW: So he really drove for the journalism department.
EH: Totally, absolutely, the journalism department would not exist without himor at least it wouldn't have been born at that time without him. And that's why I said he fathered the journalism department. And so in 66/67. We were still with that old letterpress situation and the old deadlines but we kept pushing, 43:00them pushing the printer, you know we give them most of the copy but we would go to the student council meetings on Thursday and write up a story ourselves and drop it. You know he would--We didn't have cars-- Dr. [Lippert] would take it over to the printer and, you know, knowing that there was a space reserved for this last minute story and that sort of thing. So we got a little more newsy in 66/67 and then 67/68 somewhere along that line the-Dr.[Lippert] thought that the Advance should be--also have the moniker of the title which was the mascot of Oshkosh so he got the name--he got the name changed to the advanced Titan
JW: So he also changed the name of the now newspaper that is still active.44:00
EH: What is a newspaper called now is a or is it just the Titan?
JW: It's the Advance Titan still.
EH: It's the Advance Titan, And so that was Dr. [Lipperts] doing.
JW: So you think because he started the journalism department or made a push forthat. Do you think that also therefore made the advanced Titan better. I mean I know more students would probably seem interested in it. Did you see that?
EH: Yes, and here's--here's what also happened in 67/68. That would have been myjunior year. He arranged to have--have a different printer. The technology had changed by that time from letterpress to offset. I don't know if you know what I'm talking about.
JW: I do not, I know letterpress, I don't know offset.
EH: Letter press hot-type [off press] is a way of taking a picture of the page45:00with a large camera and then burning it, electronically burning, the image into a thin film of metal so that instead of this big clunky hot lead rage type situation are the mechanism, you had you had a--the letters were burned and then the ink attached to the burn marks. And so that was and it was a different faster way of making of printing and--and the newspaper-- the Oshkosh daily
Northwestern-- was letter press and about that time in 67/68 something like46:00that. A new newspaper came to town called 'the Paper' published by The Miles Kimball Company and that was offset. And they covered campus far more than the Daily Northwestern did. There was a town in [unclear] dichotomy where the newspaper didn't acknowledge the campus or didn't--didn't, certainly didn't cover the campus. And--and whereas the News newspaper 'The Paper' got into covering the campus very specifically because the campus by that time was becoming politically active with marches and that sort of thing and so that that year between my sophomore and junior year is probably the major change in the whole culture of the campus and how it was perceived by the community and that 47:00sort of thing. And so the also in 67/68-- we got a new journalism professor as well, Another one named Holim Kim he was South Korean (H-O-L-I-M / K-I-M) and he became the adviser to the advanced Titan whereas Dr. Lippert then became more of a journalism teacher and administrator of the journalism department. And so Dr.Kim--I guess it was Mr.Kim--was--was the advisor. And--and the journalism department moved out of the upstairs of the student union into a building that was formerly a home on campus across the street from the union. I think long gone--that building is long gone. I can't answer that landline phone sorry for 48:00the noise.
JW: No worries
EH: OK okay so anyway the house that we occupied upstairs had the journalismclasses and Dr. [Lippert] office and Mr. Kim's office.
JW: So there weren't even they there weren't even then they weren't even in likea hall.
EH: Not then no. No we were--and the downstairs of the house was--we had the theoffice for where our desks were I think the secretary's offices downstairs. There was a sort of a [sunroom] that had equipment so we could actually do our own type-setting because by that time with offsets we would set the type and 49:00paste it up with glue--hot glue. And so we would we would pace up the paper and then we would drop off the camera ready copy--the camera ready pages to the printer. And the kitchen became the darkroom for the photographers. And so we had this whole set up in the journalism building. And once it was paste-up night you know so our stories--our stories came in Tuesday or Wednesday and we would get them typed up and pasted up on Wednesday nights. And then early Thursday morning they would be taken to the printer by Thursday afternoon. We would have maybe--maybe Thursday night was paste-up night because I think the tape still came on Friday and we were able to have the student council Thursday night 50:00meetings in the Friday paper or something like that.
JW: So it's a lot quicker--much quicker.
EH: The whole deadline situation was radically improved. That was then it was apaper in actually [unclear]--
JW: So do you think that the--the improvement of the journalism or the advanceTitan helped influence the campus to becoming more politically active. Because you know more things were covered and at a quicker pace.
EH: I don't think so, but I think that the improvements in the student newspaperdrew people to be to come into--and the fact that there was a journalism major that had been started up-drew people into coming into journalism, you know, they came, They chose that as their major when they came in as freshmen. 51:00
JW: Definitely, because it was becoming the new thing. So I want to touch up alittle bit on the events of November 21st 1968 or Black Thursday. I know it was a very important time for UWO, bad or good. And I think I know you had some involvement but I'm not clear on what it was. Could you tell me what happened on that day leading up to that day.
EH: I wasn't involved with black kids and knowing their frustrations wereleading up to that day and after the fact I learned that they felt isolated and 52:00had tried to go through channels many times to get some--some sense of that they were really included as part of the campus body and not ignored and--and just disrespected that sort of thing. And they were very frustrated by that time, that November, and I was no longer working for the advanced titans in 68/69. I had taken a job the previous summer at 'The Paper' the start-up that since was shut down. But so for my senior year I was helping to cover the campus for the paper. So I was a stringer for the paper. that morning I was going from one place to another and heard by word of mouth that black kids had gone up to Dr. 53:00Guiles' office. And so I knew there was a story and I didn't go to my class. And it did go to where the students were up in Dr. Guiles office. And there was a lot of milling around and some file cabinets were toppled--the, you know I think the administration people were gone by the time and there were a lot of people milling around. There were a lot of people in Dr. Guiles office and there are a lot of people in the hallways as well. And I stayed in the actual office because another reporter from the paper was out in the hallway gathering information from the crowd outside. So I stayed with the kids and as time went on the white 54:00folks left and I was the only--only white person left in the room with the black kids and I was getting their side of the story, and this and that, and the cops are called--the riot squad. They came in. They lined--If you're familiar with the hallways Dr. Guiles office was at the front end and then there's a slum calling them a backstairs going down to the rear exit of the building. So the the riot squad came with all the riot gear and the batons and everything. They don't have a gauntlet you know double wide with. And then they have loudspeakers and said 'if you don't come out now you will be arrested' and of course nobody left the room and I didn't leave the room either. And so then they said 'OK well you're going to be arrested' and so I don't remember exactly how it went but they forced everybody out of the room and walked the gauntlet you had to walk through the line of cops, and I did that along with--with other kids--black 55:00kids--and we went down the stairs and they didn't have a paddy wagon. They had a U-Haul truck was with a garage door type door as a way to put people in to take them to jail. And so I got to that point and this white guy says to me 'You better get out of this line little girl you're going to be arrested these black kids' and I wanted to be arrested and get the story from jail but I knew my mother would be mortified. So I stepped out of line. And I realized how racist that whole situation was right then and there just--just made me sick I get it, I stepped out of line with the kids get arrested and then I followed up with 56:00covering the story of their trial and everything Lloyd Barbee--Lloyd Barbee was their attorney. And recently they had a Black Thursday remembrance.
JW: Yeah, they did.
EH: And I was at it as the reason I came back to Wisconsin for that was that myhusband and I were wandering around a farmer's market in Berkeley and we ran into a guy who had an Oshkosh sweatshirt. And Ken went over and started talking to one of the guys that was involved in Black Thursday, he told us all about it. And so then I made arrangements to come to that event.
JW: So the do you think that stepping out of line, I know it was a quickdecision, but do you think looking back on that, do you regret that? Did it 57:00like--I mean because, instantly you said you realized how racist it was at that moment. Do you regret stepping out of that line? Do you ever look back and think about it?
EH: No I don't. That was that was where my energy was at that time. And while Irecognize what I was doing I also recognize that I would have riled things up and in a way that was inappropriate for that time. Nowadays, in a heartbeat, you know,
EH: I wasn't as conscious as I am now
JW: So, so I guess I'll just wrap up the interview in probably about 10 minutes58:00here so I'll just asking a few other questions.
JW: So nearing your graduation in 1969 or just the couple of months leading upto it did you notice a change in attitude towards UWO? Was it different than when you first got there? I mean I know you went through a lot of change, so did you notice a change in attitude.
EH: I wasn't reflective so he's not consciously no.
JW: But as can you see now like did you notice any changes or I guess, I wasjust, yeah.
EH: I started out this interview saying how the mentality was 1950s early 1960s59:00the students were docile, by the time I left the students were far more politically alert, awake, knowing what was going on in the larger world and bringing--bringing their viewpoints as young people to the campus
JW: And that--so yeah that definitely applied to you as well then.
EH: Yeah I chose always to be one foot in one foot out. In the sense that Iwould be in the marches but I would be covering the marches. So I didn't totally step in and get all radical I observed more than participated
JW: so is more like it objectively seeing these things. And then so then also60:00like I know you're an English major you changed to journalism and English. You kept English and added journalism: do you think your time as you UWO helped to become a better journalist just in general.
JW: Yes. How do you think? I mean I know there's a lot of events - -
EH: I the help of Dr. Kim I think he became Dr. Kim at some point and I think isworking on his doctorate while he was there. He really--Dr. [Lippert] was more--taught a theory and he made me take an economics course [unclear] part of my journalism major and a journalism and law course which was hard.--that was 61:00hard for me the law course. And Dr. Kim really was feet on the ground--taught us--taught us how to ask the right questions and probe and dig, And that's where I got my journalism training.
JW: And you applied that through you know all the major events that happenedduring that time. It's really awesome actually to have that--to have experience--
EH: I worked just to be at 'The Paper' for another year and it ceased operationsin 1970 the summer of 1970. And I went down to Milwaukee and went to grad school 62:00for a year it was a one year grad school program in Urban Affairs. And then I went to--I took a job at the Sentinel was just called The Sentinel then. And now it's called The Journal Sentinel. There were two papers. And I worked there for until late 78' and then I went independent and became a-- business and PR person self-employed so that that's how I made my living for twenty five years after I left the Sentinel.
JW: And so from what it sounds like you didn't have any troubles finding thejob. I know that's kind of the concern now.
JW: So yeah you like lined it up--I know you got to 'The Paper'--
EH: Newspapers were still thriving. In 1970 /1980 they didn't start waning until63:00social media became a deal.
JW: Yeah I can see and then just a couple--Last question: What was it like afteryou graduated just, what was your general feeling after graduating. Like I guess I don't know how to necessarily explain it in an amazing way. But what was your like emotions towards the post college world at the time.
EH: Oh I had--I had a very nice transition. I think I worked 20 to 30 hours aweek at 'The Paper' during my year--My senior year or so--so shifting into a 64:00full time job was just normal, there was no, no, no major shifts. It was just a soft transition.
JW: Nice, I'll just review to see if I think there's any more questions that aregood. Maybe do you have a lesson? Do you think that you're taking away from UWO--or just her time and your UWO that you still keep with you today? Could be anything.
EH: Nothing that comes to mind right now.
JW: Then I guess that pretty much concludes the interview. It's been hour and65:00five minutes. And there is--I will tell you--there is a deed of gift. I'm not sure if you know what that is but I'll explain it anyways. It's just a document that you sign because this is your intellectual property and you waive it to--like we discussed earlier before this call-- to be used in the journalism or for any historical purposes. So I can PDF that to you, copy it and then e-mail it and then if you could just print it off at some time and do the same back or if you will. So if you want I can just mail it to you in a physical copy. We can discuss it afterwards.
EH: PDF is fine66:00
JW: Okay, all right, but yeah So I just need to let you know about that becauseit is a very important part. That's how we get these to be public. So yeah thank you very much for talking with me. It was very insightful. I learned a lot and you did very well with--with all the questions so thank you very much.
EH: Thank you.
JW: And then we will be in touch with the--through the gifts and I'll, yeah Iguess I'll send use that in a bit.
JW: So thank you very much.
EH: OK good luck. I hope you get a good grade.
JW: Thank you. I think I will. You did a very good job, All right, Have a good day.
EH: You too now.