Interview with James Chitwood, 05/22/2016

Taylor: Hello my name is Taylor Harris, today is Monday May, 2nd 2016 and I am here with Mr. James Chitwood in the Alumni Welcome and Conference Center. Today I will be conducting an interview for the University Wisconsin - Oshkosh Campus Stories Project. To start off Mr. Chitwood could you introduce yourself by telling us when you worked at UWO and the positions you held here?

Chitwood: Certainly. My name is James M. Chitwood and I was interviewed in December 1980 for the Director of Residents Life position. There was a mid-year resignation of the former director went off to Iowa State University to work on his Doctorate and I was offered the position and I began my duties on March 2nd, 1981.

Taylor: That's pretty much it. So we are just going to start from the beginning. Where did you grow up and what was it like?

Chitwood: Okay. My hometown is Blue River, Wisconsin. It is in Southwestern Wisconsin. A little town of about 300 people, we were farmers; we had a large Dairy Farm north of Blue River in Richland County. I graduated from High School in 1965 and my parents were very supportive of college education, they didn't have that opportunity or did not take that opportunity in the 40's and so for my brother, sister, and I it was not a decision to go to college but which college would you be attending. My choices were UW Lacrosse or UW Platteville. I had gone to band concerts and marching band events and one act plays and? Contests in Platteville so that was my most familiar campus to me and so I attended UW Platteville or at that time was Wisconsin State College at Platteville. My 00:02:00tuition was $90 for the first semester; I had a legislative scholarship that paid for my tuition. I live off campus my freshman year because my, as I always like to joke, Chancellor Albic sent me a letter in July saying : Dear Jim your dorm isn't built yet, good luck and live where ever you want and my parents insisted that I would not commute the 55 miles and so I had the chance to live off campus for one year with a group of Hometown boys and after one year the renter or the owner of the house sold his house to a larger family that needed all the bed rooms and so then I moved into the residence halls. I eventually became a RA and then a head RA. When I was a head RA my hall director was David Marchee who eventually became Chancellor at UW Platteville and I majored in 00:03:00Sociology and Early American History and I started off by teaching high school at Preble, excuse me teaching high school at East High in Green Bay for one year and then due to change in demographics I was transferred to Preble, Green Bay Preble High School where I taught for three years. After, well after, during my third year I was bumped by a 40 year old who had come for administration back to the class room, bumped my out of my Sociology teaching assignment into Early American History and decided I didn't want to teach any longer. I had no desire to teach for many years of Early American History to sophomores required who didn't want to be there. I had longed to work on college campus so I approached my wife who was a teacher and we both agreed that we did not want to be teachers any longer and so we quit out jobs, brought a brand new car with our savings and 00:04:00I applied for Student Personnel Administration positions, Graduate positions and I only applied near Mountains or near oceans because we decided that if we were going to be poor college students we wanted to go to school near oceans or mountains. So Northern Colorado selected me as a candidate for the Ph.D. program and so we moved to Green Lake Colorado and we lived there for 2 years, from June of 1973 until July of 1975. I finished my Doctorate in 1976 and in 1975 I was hired as the Associate Director of Housing at UW Whitewater and I served there for 75' until March 2, 1981 when I came to Oshkosh. I served in that role as 00:05:00Director of Residence halls here until 1999, and that's when we had Dean of Students position was open and I was asked by Dr. Garb to be the Chairperson of the Search and Screen Committee. It failed. So Dr. Garb came to me said "In recognition of your good work I am appointing you as Interim Dean of Students for a year." Well we, you don't hire or you don't search for a Dean of Students in July and September and so I served in that role, during that time he asked me if I wanted to be the Dean of Students permanently and I said no. However I approached him with a proposal, a written proposal that we change the name of 00:06:00the Dean of Students Office to Campus Dean and that I would be the Campus Dean and Director of Residence Life. He didn't make any comment and few weeks later I seen that he announced that Tom Fojtik could be the Chair of the new Search and Screen Committee for the Dean of Students. So I thought okay I will go back to my Residence Life position. Well that search failed .And so Dr. Garb came to me and offered me the opportunity to be Dean of Students and Executive Director of Residence Life in 2000 and Tom Fojtik was promoted to the Director of Housing. And so until 2005 or 2006, I served, I lead both departments. I was kind of nice having two offices back and forth. They'd call Residence Life "May I speak with Jim?" "Um no, he's in the Dean of Students office." "We just called there, he's not there." Well I'm sure running like crazy between two offices, but I did that 00:07:00for the while with the good staff that I had we were able to do that. Then when Dr. Roter came to town and she offered the opportunity to the Dean of Students with Residence Life reporting to me and Tom Fojtik then was the set up as the Director of Residence Life. I served as that role as Dean of Students until October 31, 2009, when I retired.

Taylor: Okay, So being that you have different degrees leading up to your PhD, so you said that your parents were " where are you going to go to college, did you know exactly where you were going to go at first or exactly what you wanted to do?

Chitwood: Oh I had no idea what I wanted to do. Matter a fact with my undergraduate degree I think I have 156 Credits. At the end of my sophomore year I got a call from Dr. Pegincough? I'm sure he called me personally in the 00:08:00Registrar at Platteville and said "uh Jim, you're finishing your sophomore year and you have no major declared." And I go "oh alright, I'll be a sociology major cause that interested me." The next semester I took 5 sociology courses and my advisor goes, "I wouldn't even do that." But I did that and I was on the fast track to be a sociology major. At the end of my junior year I got a call again from the Registrar's office saying," Dear Jim, you haven't selected a minor yet. You need a minor. You are going to be a senior next year." So I counted, took out my transcribed, counted up the greatest number amount of credits in any field, and history won. So then I became a history minor and then graduated in July of 1969.

Taylor: So basically, everything just kind of fell into place?

Chitwood: It kind of eventually fell into place. But I went to, I went to 3 00:09:00summer schools and 4 full years to get my degree, that's why I have so many credits. And the immediately, upon working at Green Bay East a couple fellow teachers invited me to be a child care worker at the St. Joseph home for boys in Green Bay. A court appointed home. On weekends a child care worker. So I did that every other weekend for 2 years, picked up a little extra spending money at $2 an hour times 8. So I got a $32 check every month or so. And I did that but I also working on my, I was advised by teachers in the school district "to get my Master's degree fast because that would throw you into a whole new different financial Salary category." And so even didn't know didn't know if I wanted to study I turned around and started working on my guidance and counseling master's 00:10:00degree because that was after teaching for four year and I thought I think I'd like to be a guidance and counseling counselor. After a little while watching the high school guides and counselors all they did was kind of help students to determine which courses to take. Is wasn't as inviting to me as I thought it would be but I finished up that degree right prior to going and going to work on my doctorate then. And so actually, in 1970 so I had been working on my master's degree working at the boys in the boy's home and teaching full-time President Nixon decided to see the health and welfare of all men between the ages of 18 and 35. So we all had to go lift to get fit and get physicals and I had a teaching deferment at that point so I went to Milwaukee and had the physical 00:11:00then my draft board in Riches County asked to speak with me interview me and it was a 15 minute interview and I was of course very nervous I had my Air Force papers laid out filled out had my navy papers all filled out to apply to these in case it look like it wouldn't go so well. They spent the whole time talking about my 32 hours a week working at the boy's home versus my teaching and me going to grad school. I think probably what happened it moved to my favor that they probably had this are probably had the supply in the county, because the county if you were drafted it depended on the supply in your county. And I'm so I'm sure in my county they determined that there were enough men to be drafted and we don't have to draft someone who teaches full-time works on his graduate degree every semester in on weekends works at a boys home and that wasn't my intention but that was the result. So I continued my teaching.

Taylor: OK. How was your community different than when say you went to college as an undergrad and for your PhD and then to here at UW Oshkosh how did those transition?

Chitwood: Well my high school had 120 students total. We had seven teachers and principal. So if you have freshman English the entire freshman class was in that section, there were never two sections of anything and so I grew up in a rural farm area. You know, in the 60s if you did something that was questionable, were out of line and that was before cell phones and technology everybody knew really, really fast that Jimmy Chitwood or someone else miss behaved and when you got home you were admonished for that. Actually the neighbors could set you 00:13:00straight if you miss behaved and uncles and aunts and everything. Going off to Platteville the campus was probably 3000 people there and it seem to be huge. And then moving to Green Bay, Wisconsin, the city at that about that time was 50,000, it was quite interesting for a farm kid to do that but I'm pretty self-confident and I didn't have too many issues with that. Going to grad school in northern Colorado that was a little stressful I did not enter the PhD program initially. I entered what was called the specials degree that was a one year degree after a master's degree but after the first semester of my advisor came to me and said the faculty had decided that I probably would want to continue on the PhD and if I kept on the road I was taking it would take a year or longer, 00:14:00so why don't you just you know just quick that nonsense it go right into the doctorate program and they approve that so. And then I we had our first child our son Matthew was born in Colorado. We decided that we wanted to come back towards the Midwest to raise our children near at least near grandparents. So I only applied for jobs in Iowa Illinois Minnesota and Wisconsin and I had a chance to be hired. Things at Whitewater they were a little bit different too. I was hired in a way that would not be allowed today. On spring break while I had my application into Whitewater and a couple other places to be the associate director of housing, I am on spring break I hadn't heard anything we're heading 00:15:00back to Wisconsin, he was going to placement thing in Minnesota and visit family for Easter, so I called the structure of housing Mr. Gorby, and I said I'm in Wisconsin and if you would like an opportunity to meet me I'm available. I was a actually in Ogallala Nebraska at a payphone I was very happy that he didn't say be here tomorrow morning at 8 o'clock but he said hey why don't you come over at Thursday. Drive over to Whitewater on Thursday, come here at 11 o'clock we'll talk for a while have your lunch bring your wife I want to meet your wife I want her to see the city and the town. We spent about three hours there toured met him chatted, had a nice conversation and went home and didn't hear anything for three or four or five weeks about six weeks later I got a phone call from him saying that I was hired. I had no official campus interview. Those things just don't happen today. I mean he had it checked my references and they were people 00:16:00that he knew around Wisconsin and they all gave me thumbs up as did the people at Northern Colorado but today that would not happen HR would not allow that to happen. And rightfully so. But I'm happy it happened to me.

Taylor: so you said that you have kids was education like a big push on them just like how your parents it was where you were going not if you're going to go?

Chitwood: right so we have three sons and while we didn't push really hard on them academically because they were all boys and sometimes in high school they were not too interested in the academic side but it was just suggested it implied that you will go to college. Although our middle son we suggested that during his senior year that he take a year off and and go work for the director 00:17:00of music at Disneyland or Disney World that we were friends of because he was a drummer, go to the ski hill, go to you why don't you leave Wisconsin and just spend a year doing something else. But they all eventually, he didn't do that he went to college, and they all went to college. They all have college degrees. My oldest son just a year ago finished his master's degree at University of lacrosse in the recreational management, he's employed in student. My middle son got his degree and he is, he got his degree from Stout in telecommunications, at 00:18:00UW Stout and she works for a telecommunications company in Greenville South Carolina. His wife is working on her MBA, they have two sons, and my oldest also has two son. My youngest just finished his MBA at UW Milwaukee. He will graduate in May 2016. His wife is a market graduate. So my three sons all, among my three sons there are six or five degrees. We are proud of our kids.

Taylor: I would definitely be proud of that. How do you think your experiences throughout your colleges that you gone to And even you being a part of the Oshkosh area United Way and things like that, how do you feel that 47 years of educational-based work how do you think that, that prepared you like everything has prepared you for everything you Done like throughout college?

Chitwood: My greatest experiences and education occurred in the trenches. To go off and become a teacher they've changed education, teacher education now. Back, I don't know what it changed in the early 70s, in 1969 in the 60s you took your courses, your major, then you took your major preparation courses, and then sometime like in my case the last nine weeks of the semester, of an 18 week semester, the last nine weeks was the first time I entered the classroom to be a teacher. You didn't have any observations as a sophomore, you didn't have experiences like they do now to get students into the classrooms early you just did your student teaching. On the first day of my student teaching at Platteville, I had to preparations one was economics to seniors, I had had one 00:20:00course one course in economics and at Platteville and I got to be in it. And here I was teaching economics to seniors. I was teaching recent American history and I had one course in recent American History. I was in early American history minor. I walked into the classroom at the end of the day my cooperating teacher said you know I'm coming down with a bad cold tomorrow I want you to step in and take over the five sections of classes. It might've been for classes. Three history and one economics. So I went back to my residence hall and I prepared the Lesson and from that point he came into the classroom maybe twice. My cooperating teacher from the University appeared wants to watch me, do you observe me what I was giving an exam back and he said oh you're giving an exam back I'll come back some other time. And he didn't so I learned a lot about 00:21:00teaching from--.

Taylor: So you were just thrown into it?

Chitwood: Thrown into that, and I prevailed and offered a contract again and then got much better in my teaching. After four years I was a fairly adequate if not good sociology teacher. I took over a program at Preble high that was a, they had this social studies class that was for seniors that we expect his they all pass because they need to graduate. It turned into a college-bound sociology class eventually. I learned there, so then I go to Northern Colorado and that was, my first job as a residence hall director, was the assistant associate hall director in a high-rise tower I arrived for days after it opened because I couldn't finish my teaching and get to Colorado in time in the summer do you 00:22:00help open the residence halls. It was a brand-new residence hall all the occupants were the first time there so I had to learn, how I open a residence hall that was not quite finished. They were still doing the checks, and I got through that really fine and that I took the associate director at Whitewater. I was associate director at Whitewater and we arrived down there, actually I wrote on my dissertation till midnight on a Wednesday, packed the car on a Thursday said goodbye on a Thursday night Drove Friday all day, and Saturday half-day got to Illinois to my in-laws and drove to Whitewater Sunday morning bought a house at 4 o'clock in the morning on Monday I was in the office at 8 o'clock to start my new job. One week later the new vice chancellor who is also Dave Marchee, Who had been my former hall director years ago didn't know that I just been hired, 00:23:00he had just been hired as the new vice chancellor for student affairs. He walks into the housing director and said all right this is an archaic housing operation. The head dean of men, who had all the men's residence hall staff and hall government. They how do you dean of women who had all of the women's halls. Housing just did the facilities. He said, the dean of students will go back to the classroom, the dean of men and the dean of women no longer have residence halls, and all the residence halls now belong to housing. The whole directors come to work in three weeks, redesign a new housing operation. So the director and I worked all day went to his porch at night for the next for five nights with a flip charts and magic markers and redesigned a whole new housing department, philosophies and everything. The staff arrived and wondered where 00:24:00are the dean of men, where are the dean of women; oh they're not here any longer meet the new guy. They had the orientation scheduled for the RA's didn't even have my name in. It wasn't like you have a word-processing now it was mimeo graph. It was new associate will do this, new associate will do that. So we started in design, so that, I didn't get any instructions classroom, I didn't know how to do that. And then when I came up here to Oshkosh, oh well established program, but I still remember my first three appointments. I started on March 2, 1981. Two days later I had the standing committee of the St. Patrick's Night, it was a standing committee, I didn't know that St. Patrick's day here in Oshkosh, it could be in some days riotous. I mean overturned cars, I 00:25:00saw a car turned over. So I'm thinking, 15 days after I arrived here was St. Patrick's Day. I went to this committee meeting that and that every, well in the spring the night every week but in the fall they met like once a month just to Kind of-- They had all the strategies, we had guards in the residence halls, I thought holy cow. The second appointment was a hall director came in and said I want to get it, to hold directors we're going to get married can we live in one apartment and run a residence hall from another apartment. Well my boss I just got, two years ago I just got to full-time residence hall directors with masters degrees, I'm not, no. Someone asked, so they got married and I hired one to be my assistant for the conference center. My third appointment was a hall director came in and said well glad to meet you, she hadn't done her homework obviously, 00:26:00and she said I have this little dog I love this but it was with my mom in Illinois, would you allow pets in the residence halls. I wanted to her, yes providing that the dog is stuffed and you can please him up in your mantle. I've always been anti-, I see residence halls now into thousand 16 that allow pets among the hall directors. I was always anti-pet. But anyway, so right there into weeks later I'm on the street with Greg Brewer the chief of police and the students were going kind of crazy around and what is over what is Kelly's someone flipped over a car there and, actually I'm walking down the street with the chief of police were dressed in blue jeans and sweatshirts this young man about a block ahead of us with going out to sign, a traffic sign and threw it in the Street came running to us. We're just walking along all of a sudden he 00:27:00approaches the chief who is about 5 foot eight and 180 pounds just stuck out his arm and clotheslined the guy. Took him down cuffed him, Called for someone to haul them away interest him for vandalizing the streets. I was very interested. When it was over, I went to my, I went to the calendar and started checking; I'll be back up. Spring break was always followed Easter week. Well we had 14 weeks semesters here, so I started looking about when we started school and determined that seven out of eight, seven out of eight years spring break would be or St. Patrick's Day would be during spring break. So I proposed it to Ed's Smith saying why hasn't the University, first of all and some years depending 00:28:00when Easter would fall, Easter was really late. You have spring break and three then three weeks later school was done if it was in late April, or four weeks later. It seems to me why don't we have seven weeks of class, spring break, and seven weeks of class, it just makes sense doesn't it? And he says seal free to mention it to the chancellor, feel free to speak about that. You know, these calendars are set for years in advance. The faculty senate, and I don't know if Paul government or campus government was involved, but they change the calendar in 1981, that was the last St. Patrick's Day festival or you event. Do you tried for a couple years to do a St. Patrick's Day prior or right after but St. Patrick's Day is one of those celebrations that you only celebrate on March 17, 00:29:00it loses it affect. So that was a long answer to your question but I guess a lot of what I've learned was on the job probably like those professions

Taylor: It was just as it goes, whatever happens, just deal with it and figure it out kind of thing.

Chitwood: check your sources, check the history, what would makes commonsense. If there's powers to be that need to be convinced to do that. One of my keys to success, probably my basic key to success is that I've never been afraid of talent. And I've never been afraid of hiring people that are smarter than me it's more talented than me. And I've done that all the time. I've never worried about somebody looking over, or anyone looking over my shoulder seeing if 00:30:00someone wants my job. I hope they all do, I hope they all wanted to be director of residence halls. We've had several people Now throughout the country who has started here at Oshkosh in housing in a ministration or in the dean of students administration that are now at other campuses doing well. I'm pride as a sin, I'm very prideful that some people that I've worked with year and hired here are off doing bigger and better things so. Using your people letting them do your work.

Taylor: I almost think that's one thing that a lot of places lack is out there just like oh you don't want to have someone here that could take my job so then it kind of affects it. Do you think that you would want to go about it any other way? Say if someone told you exactly how to do your job while you were here?

Chitwood: Wow. I don't, I don't think I would change a thing. Maybe I might've 00:31:00not have retired too soon even though I could. Because I did miss that, and I still miss a lot of aspects about that but I found other things to do. No, I came here Taylor for my goal was for five years. I came here to build my resume, and then launch out to a bigger campus, a classier, sexier--

Taylor: Something different.

Chitwood: Something different that I could build my credentials and go off and landed some big; my wife and I never, never faced with the opportunity that we had to do something like that. Actually the office it was we had no desire. I did apply for job at Green Bay. And I thought I could commute up there it was 00:32:00summer job. I had this opinion on a certain policy in the UW system and I knew it was contrary to the chancellor's opinion of that at Green Bay at Green Bay at the time. When I gave my presentation I spoke about how I felt about this policy and driving home I knew I wouldn't be hired. Actually I was afraid, coming home I was thinking oh what is they don't hire me? And then my biggest fear what if they do? They didn't. I knew why they did it because my ideas and it was not idea of student services, student affairs people throughout the system that held my same idea but you were three chancellors had a different vision of who would be in charge of money it had to do with The exhilarate of funds, who has control 00:33:00and how they should be spent. That Chancellor believes that chancellors has full custody, of Exhale operations and could spend money wherever they wanted to and that was just contrary to the thought of having exhilarate managers of the time.

Taylor: so I know you talked about St. Patrick's Day at first, the year before in the 80s that's when there was a huge right here.

Chitwood: I guess so.

Taylor: I actually saw a video of some things that were going on, do you feel that some of those issues were based upon, like some of those issues happen because the drinking age was 18?

Chitwood: all of them.

Taylor: oh okay. Do you think some of those issues have carried on now because that's college life or you think it's just?

Chitwood: there are, around the country, there are legitimate issues where 00:34:00college students have been a voice for the college students who have helped to be changes and then there are times when there have been incidents where college students used opportunities to be Hellions and then found the cause. For example, when I was at Platteville my senior year, I had a part-time job of her ironing or refereeing or untiring face empire for men's softball. And I go back to the campus and all the lights were off and people are in the streets what was squirrel had gone into a transformer in knockdown do you electricity for all, it was a bombing hot night, it people started milling went downtown started being crazy in throwing trash cans thrown in trash cans around they were just being call me miss behaving. Well finally got them cool down a little bit by the next 00:35:00morning some people took that opportunity to make it that they were striking for issues. It's just started with a group of people want a hot night being crazy because they couldn't study in the dorms so they flat out. Bye morning they were posters all over we need to call me tonight address these issues. Then the next night it got really crazy. A matter fact you got so crazy that the local Town constable came out to the farm to talk to my parents and suggested that they call my brother and myself it direct us to come home because someone's going to get her tomorrow or get her tonight, bring your kids home. Well we both had our age jobs we had responsibilities and my parents said no my parents said that we could take care of ourselves, well that night it got crazy some fireman got hurt 00:36:00students were throwing rocks. OK and finally, the third night policeman as I recall over 200 policemen came from over the country and I was downtown off to the side parking lot walking along counting squad cars from every county and city that I knew was in Wisconsin. Eventually you get settled in to talk to the chancellor then somethings changed but it didn't start because of issues. The John the streets fires, I don't know if you've seen that in your news reports, so late 80s or 90s, one balmy evening on John street that intersects with Elmwood, somehow a bomb fire started in the middle of the street and people were 00:37:00bringing stuff out and furniture out and it got to be a big huge, and they were going crazy and it became and I was called in, I was the director of residence halls, Mary? Was the dean of students, she was cold in and we kind of hit it in the shadows and watch in the firemen were afraid to go in because things are being thrown around so they let the fire burn out. By the next morning guess what? There were issues that we need to discuss because last night was the start of the protest and I forgot what they dreamed of and they started, tonight; in the meaning there was news that hit Milwaukee it by 2 o'clock in the afternoon it happen three nights in a row. Second night's, second afternoon around 2 o'clock there were two TV trucks on Elmwood it around with their big intent is 00:38:00up and I saw a reporter walking the street stopping students is there going to be another right tonight. I'm not kidding you. The media caused the second night to occur.

Taylor: They just added fuel fire.

Chitwood: The media were partly responsible, because maybe I don't know maybe I should go out to this right tonight. The second night it was huge again. I actually there were a lot of rocks and stuff through. The third night, the third morning then I believe it was Tom Grogan administrative assistant, special assistant to the chancellor we quickly directed all the news trucks parked behind Kolf. Behind Kohl's you couldn't see their intent is from John Street that's where all the news trucks, because their attendance would go with several blocks away you didn't have to be right on top of it. But they were still out there trying to hustle another news event. So oh where we started or where we 00:39:00are ending but yes there is been times and there is been times where there's legitimate issues on campus that you probably read about in the news regarding back to the St. Patrick's Day in 1980 it in the 80s I was at Whitewater my wife and I were raising three kids, I was working hard, I was teaching at night, I don't think I knew much about any St. Patrick's Day. By the way I don't know in recent history but I was in Whitewater fruit years ago on St. Patrick's Day and several bars were opening at 6 o'clock at handing out free T-shirts and you know I think St. Patrick's Day is celebrated a little bit out Whitewater down I'm not sure to what extent. But those days are over we don't have St. Patrick's, we have St. Patrick's celebration but regarding the 18-year-old drinking, life, and 00:40:00you know there's pros and cons people are still debating it, as a residence hall administrator life was so much more difficult when it was 18-year-old drinking. It was because we would have, seriously we would talk to especially the main RA or CA's, of how to walk away from the problem and called her back up because once in a while we would have million students roaming the halls looking for free beer looking for women looking for women looking for parties looking for fun times and if they sue lived in Fletcher Hall and they went over to Taylor hall there's no vested interest in the hall and I don't care if you are a CA, because I've got five beers in me and I'm 19 and I'm 18 can punch you out. We would, Monday morning's at staff meeting so frequently if we knew it might've 00:41:00been a tough weekend especially the weather, if it was cold and rainy we didn't have to worry much, but was there any incidents in the residence halls. We had parties in the residence halls, we allowed beers in the residence halls in the basements and I need it was crazy. So I can Scott Hall by Wednesday you would have to tell us how many people would be there and say you were going to have 100 people who paid their one dollar to be there, and that would mean that we could only order so many half barrels of beer. When I was at Whitewater we have the same policy but we also had a policy there that I also made sure Kurt hear that you had to have alternative beverages sodas. So what are the organizers do they went out and bought cheap bottles of Shasta's or some of this pop, pop town, we had a pop store in town, downtown on Wagu or somewhere down there, 00:42:00where they sold cheap bottles of pop probably six flavors. Well we put made a change here if you have beer you will have Pepsi, Coke a cola--

Taylor: Like good stuff.

Chitwood: You will have good soda, you won't have that cheap stuff I'm to save a few bucks. But then we would have parties, and because most people were under 18 they couldn't go wrong by, so our professional staff, our hall directors who are 21 or older would actually go to the store where the three half barrels or two half barrels were purchased and they would bring them up tap and ice them and get them already for the party, I mean we did that. I remember at northern Colorado, Dan Carry, a good friend of mine just retired A few years ago or one year ago was the president of? College, on a Friday afternoon we took plastic 00:43:00and duct tape and we would, because we didn't want the beer to get on the carpet we would, it was called silo topping, have you duty plastic and we would TV to the walls and brought the half barrels and iced it because you didn't want the beer to be on the floor there. But we had a lot of problems with fights and things, people strolling the halls residence halls--.

Taylor: Looking for trouble.

Chitwood: Looking for trouble, looking for free beer, looking for places. Then then it changed to 21, it graduated from 19 then it was 20 then it was 21. At that time we built beer gardens in the basement to residence halls. So if you, because underage students would say we want to go and have the dance and dance to the music so we build these beer gardens where the beer was in one little 00:44:00area and that's where if you were 19 or 20 and you could show your ID you could go in and drink in there, but people, the people had to be out where the people who couldn't drink, and that's where the music. And then 20, they should've just gone to 21. Just done it.

Taylor: I feel like that would almost be a tease oh there you are--

Chitwood: And so then when they went to 21, then we stopped having beer parties in the residence halls because most of our students weren't, then we just bend, you can only drink in the privacy of your room if you're 21 years old. Then of course it would get or someone couldn't say no it would go out and buy a whole bunch of beer in it we would have a little room parties that we had to bust periodically. Sometimes we are accused not by USRH but maybe by OSA that we were 00:45:00looking for underage drinkers. You don't have to look very far for underage drinkers all you have to do is open your ears because it's 130 in the morning in all hell is breaking loose in the music is cranked up because the more you drink the worst you're here he gets.so you crank it up, it was just obvious where they were and no we challenged because the law said we had too. We had a couple of overdoses in residence halls, you know that's where policy meets public opinion which is a problematic. New policies says you're 21 you're out drinking it in some areas policy says 18 if you can vote you should be able to drink which makes no sense at all to me, it has nothing to do with each other but the public 00:46:00opinion says you let underage drinkers drink till they die? And you didn't confront that? You didn't have policies in place to rescue those people? It's very controversial, there's a fine line there rights you, you know if a student was highly intoxicated for causing problems can you call parents? Do you call Parents? You know, it's a policy says this but if you didn't call the parents and two weeks later a student died, you mean this is been going on with my son, my son has been having parties in his room and because he was you know 21 or whatever over 18 you didn't call us soon or Gus and now you're standing before casket of our dead son and we should've known about things? It's a tough road.

Taylor: I remember reading some articles where students were saying now you 00:47:00don't need to call my parents and things like that. I could definitely see how that's controversial.

Chitwood: and we didn't call. Unless it was something, we would always cold, I mean there are some points to that if we thought as Ed Smith, my first boss said to me once and I kind of took this philosophy, and I'd rather stand before a judge then before casket of a student. And so if I make a decision that someone needs to be warned to prevent something I'll stand before church before I stand before a casket. I'm straight before four or five caskets of students and it's not a lot of fun. And these were all situations where things just happen, it wasn't anything that we could've warned parents about. But yeah, public policy, 00:48:00University policy, and public opinion, and there's always two camps in the public opinion make life really stressful for a lot of campus administrators.

Taylor: how do you think Greek life has changed over the years? Because I know I was reading about how there was an issue about fraternities and everything like that and there is signatures that needed to be done in things that needed to be in order what happens with that?

Chitwood: well, I belong, when I was in undergraduate, I belong to sigma tau gamma, a national fraternity and the fraternities at Platteville were large. Most fraternities have 40 or 50 or 60 people and I be leave that our fraternity was started by engineers and engineer study so our grade point was high except for mind because I was a sociology major, they help me out. We had high-grade 00:49:00points, we always one the bloodmobile trophy that the chancellor had, we had more blood than anybody, but we did things that were illegal today. I mean we had hazing, we had paddling, all that kind of things that are now. So I graduate and I didn't stay connected with my fraternity, I had a few, well my brothers that I remained friends with so I really didn't get back into the fraternity scene, until I became the dean of students. No now we're talking leaving college at 1969 and becoming the dean of students and 2000 that's 30 years. Lots of things have changed. The word of colleges, life in colleges on this campus had decreased, I had decreased tremendously. We had fraternities that we're struggling to keep a dozen active. So I took over, as the dean of students, I 00:50:00took over advising the Greek Council and Debbie?? Took over the sororities, she didn't want to but she you was directed by the dean of students to be, work with and women and I worked with them in and the problem with a lot of it was the officers and some of the seniors three or four people who are the leadership who really wanted to do right. And they came in and gave me a little lip service but genuinely they wanted to do right, but it was the younger ones, the freshman's in the sophomores who would wash all of the fraternity movies and decided they wanted--

Taylor: To go crazy

Chitwood: To go crazy and drink a lot and party a lot and sometimes in some situations are not gentleman around women at parties and things in so you got to 00:51:00the point where some of the great points plummeted, I think there are one or two of them that we're barely average of two point and that was probably with three or four of them having three points great points. So we, I really started working hard with them, then we had a fraternity that was brought to my attention what are young man walked in with pictures, for his pledge. He was directed to go to Fleet Farm in by canoe paddle in which the actives paddled him with a canoe paddle as part of the rituals, well he came in, he went home tab is talking to his mom and she took Photos, his mom also happen to be a doctor and she directed him to come back and report it, will after the investigation, I suspended, permanently suspended that fraternity, because there are other things 00:52:00that came to us and then another fraternity because of partying and other issues, I suspended them permanently about three or four years later. They have no I understand Ari activating which I'm happy to see, permanent is not always permanent but it was permanent as long as I was there and I worked, in a couple of these situations I had friends of mine in the community who has the numbers in the 70s in the 60s who had approached me Jim why did you cancel our fraternity and I could only tell them so much for confidentiality and just say listen you know me, you know I was Greek, you know I just wanted willfully suspend your fraternity forever because I don't like them. The fact was it was 00:53:00very-- The biggest trouble, was dealing with the executive directors of Greek man it's fraternities I couldn't get callbacks, now the surety folks. The executive directors of different states, if I had an issue with the sorority that phone ringing off the hook quickly, a matter of fact there was One sorority that took a bus down to Lake Eyre center and there was a bar down there, the bus got stopped there was some problem and I found out there is some underage drinking going on. So Monday morning they self-reported, they called me on Saturday morning to self-report, they're 70 manages to self-report, they also 00:54:00called the executive director, Think she was in Ohio they self-reported, she was in town Friday morning, I mean Monday morning. She bought an expensive airplane ticket and flew here, she came to my office at 3 o'clock in the afternoon, and said I've interviewed everybody and we have three levels of discipline. We have three as low discipline two is the second and number one is the highest. I have determined because of the underage drinking on the bus, it is a level two, so they will have level two sanctions and then I said to her oh by the way during your investigation did you find that one of the little sisters was actually a little 16-year-old birth sister she said one of our sororities had her birth sister who is 16 who was intoxicated? I said yes. She does they have now moved to a Neville one sanctions. So I did very well with the sororities, I've been 00:55:00retired for seven years so I don't know the status of the Greek organization on campus, except for at home coming you do see their presents, if they follow the rules, there are federal laws now against hazing, you can't paddle, you can't do anything that is, they're really quite restrictive, if you follow the federal laws the national rules and university policies, it could be a great social group or organization, you can do wonderful things, you can do, some of them do charitable work, you can really have a nice organization and join, but is just win the final traditions of 100 years that fraternities are all about drinking that causes some issues.

Taylor: So I understand that you were, you were also a part of the change of housing, student housing it changing from 60 credits and you being on campus for two years and it changing to now 48 credits, how did you view that?

Chitwood: Well, not to be pat on the back but I will, I was probably the only director of residence halls in the UW system that actually heard break contract and housing appeals. Most of my colleagues go gym why would you do that, send that to other places, let your assistance and associates handle that. I don't know what time does now but anyways. We started out being very tough because in my first, from 81 to about 85 we did not raise enough revenue to pay our bills 00:57:00in residence halls and so we got debt relief from UW system, so I would go to state, or other residence halls I believe superior and Oshkosh were the only ones who couldn't pay her bills and so we got debt release from the UW system exhilarates of other campuses and I'll go to housing director meetings in they would say hey Jim how's my money working for you, all because campuses that had good housing programs that were wellfield helped us pay her debts. Eventually crawled out of debt and paid her own bills in about 85 or so and didn't received a relief. So those years we hung really tight to the 60 credits because 15 credits per semester times for get you to 60 will then after a while after 00:58:00looking a lot of students didn't take interim courses that's well courses was kind of a full load and see some of our students indeed had been living in residence halls for four semesters, did serve their time. Because we didn't have a lot of juniors and seniors stay, we had a lot of seniors come back, we had a lot of juniors go off campus and come back and say hey, I don't want to wash my dishes I don't want to cook I don't want to clean I just want you to take care of me because I got a kick butt and study and I got to graduate. So we have seniors come back for a variety of reasons or maybe they would come back first semester because they had to go off and do an internship somewhere. But anyway, just made sense after a while that is, no the 48 credits is hooked to four semesters, so then we had students coming in here with 15 credits earned, club 00:59:00credits earned in high school, so he said well you still need the essence is that you served two years in residence halls it's a good place to get acclimated to campus. So that was part of that we just started reducing that because we had all of these pills that were coming in that we eventually then agreed to because, you got yourself 52 credits and you've lived in the residence halls for four semesters and so to take less paperwork away and to look at the essence of the requirement.

Taylor: I was reading that you have a lot of other leadership responsibilities and stuff throughout the community did you take part in any of those while you were here UW Oshkosh? If so how did those transform here? Did they take place here or have any events going on?

Chitwood: It all started with my philosophy when I started here at Oshkosh that my professional staff the ones in the office, assistant directors, and full-time hall directors that week you can just not stay in our little cubicles that if we want to have influences in this university then we have to be out there or else this university will just go on well we're off here in the corner Campus, in 01:00:00being in the corner of campus over here is that we are in green Hagan all those years I want you to do your good work but I expect you will volunteer for committee work on campus if someone puts out, get out on committees that are appropriate to do so or when invited to do so, when there is a retirement someone or some senior administrator or some pool full professor that you kind of know, make sure that we go to socials and that we are seeing there, with the Chancellor? Chancellor Kerrigan, mostly Kerrigan and Penson, every six months they would have a leadership two day workshop, usually you it's a pint or end where they invited anyone on campus to come in to help plan for the future and I made sure that my assistant director was there because you need to be there and 01:01:00if they discuss policy get your residence whole point of you in there and so, to be a good model, role model I made sure that I my VI TA doesn't even show a lot of this early years, I was on several policy committee's that I volunteered to be on just for my input. A part of that was that I had a PhD student personnel administration. I believe that what I was hired I was the only student personnel PhD in the department couple folks have doctorates but in different areas as I recall so I was out there making sure, a friend of mine had told me a few years before keep in mind as in ministry. The administration by walking around and be very valuable. So I walked around and I was seen, I also learned that from my 01:02:00previous job whenever you see a maintenance truck or an exhilarate truck that has UW oh logo that has cleaning supplies on top that you wave to all the trucks into all the servicemen and women, and while I didn't know their names when I retired they knew who I was because it just shows that were a part of this bigger picture than just a dormitory for students. And so I got very involved, I Jones or rotary right away in the community, and that if we would have kept this events where I believed university people should be I would attend. Actually my first few years rotary I didn't think that we were on a hill but I would have people say well Chitwood what's going up on the hill with the UWO or sometimes 01:03:00UW Zero which I would quickly remind them that we were not UW Zero. I eventually was invited to be on boards and commissions in the city and I got very involved with my professional society and so I was involved with the state of Wisconsin college personnel association and eventually was president and then I was involved with the upper Midwest region association of college and university housing office I was eventually president there and then with the national organization, I ended up being a chair of the foundation for two years. I did a lot of workshops and eventually people would ask that I would be on committees, 01:04:00I'm still on several. I'm still on for five committees that a joint while I was working here at the University. So I just believe that if you have an apartment and you hide out in your department and you were engaged in activities nobody know that your department exists. I also got very involved in athletics, I would go to the games and things like that, and I did pay off. Here's another reason it paid off. If you're involved in campus activities, including academic committee's or any type of committee and something goes Fallon your department you don't have to, you can have someone in that department say, call you up and say Jen you need to know somethings going on I just heard something about your department or something that happened there versus someone calling saying may I speak with Dr. Chitwood I have a complaint, or if I what here's something for 01:05:00about another department I could walk over and just say hey here's a heads up here's what I heard so it's kind of looking at your network to help solve problems behind, under the radar that nobody even has to know about existed

Taylor: It's basically took a big school in made it to where everybody's on first name basis and things like that where almost friends you'd rather hear from them then hear from someone down the street who has nothing to do with anything

Chitwood: And that's why think our Chancellor Andy wants to be called Andy. Current Chancellor wants to become Andy and that's just to make you become a little bit more family and makes people little bit more approachable. Some of my supervisors I would do the same with then, we were first name basis, but if we were at an event I would say you know good morning Dr. Garber or Dr. Roter or 01:06:00Dr. Smith or Chancellor and they would do the same with me just to show that there is some respect and that we are all not buddy buddies but just the fact there are positions on campus that need, and people that needed to be respected and you give that respect. Yet having a family feeling.

Taylor: I can definitely see how that would make a big difference. So what would you say your biggest impact that you've made on you WL? What's the biggest thing that you feel me the biggest, huge difference?

Chitwood: OK sure. I think my hiring good, assistant directors, and good hall directors benefited the university because Ted? Was my assistant director for 01:07:00operations, eventually became the director of placement Jill? Became assistant director for programs and in the conference center then became the interim director interim and the foundation, and then eventually became the director of admissions and still holds up position. Tom 40 came here is a whole direction as your burdens you hire in the middle of the year, came here it has worked himself up for the hall director to the director of residence halls. Mark? Came here I was a student in green Hagan, do you know Marque by chance?

Taylor: No, I do not.

Chitwood: He came here as a student, I always laugh Marque checked in to residence halls on Labor Day but got active a week earlier. He would hit the ground running in the work himself to a graduate assistant ship, SCA 01:08:00assistantship hall director and then he worked in the business office of our department in now is the director of green Hagan center outside of here Pat Carter's of Indiana University, Jackie? Is associate director at Indiana University, I've had several of my staff members who have just moved up. Matt in Reeve, I guess if any of my impact is lingering at some point when they won't route when they retire it won't be lingering any longer I would say that several people that we hired that were so talented as assistant directors and hall directors Lori Thomas was a hall director, Lori she's in admissions now. We have 01:09:00several people that are, James?, Is the assistant to the vice chancellor, I would guess it there's probably if I can think, if I could see the list of all the employees in the University there's probably still today seven years after I retired that there are probably still a dozen people that were in residence halls that I've now moved up in ministration and seven or eight of them that is moved out to other campuses so I guess one of the best compliments I've gotten was from Tim Danielson, when upon my retirement says who's going to chair search and screen committees for the University, I was the chair for several search and screens committees that put directors and associate people into position at this 01:10:00university I didn't do it alone but I Knew that was my skills I knew how to run search and scream committees and did that very well and then I think that hopefully I'm still Facebook friends with CA's in the whole government leaders that overtime maybe felt my influence a little but of course his time moves on that waits a little bit. I'm sure I've had input on policies like the calendar the seven-week it'll break moving to the alcohol calendar, I mean alcohol policies there and some of the basic housing policies I was here when they remodeled Grehegan. We didn't talk about the fire yet did we? Black hawk Fire?

Taylor: Oh no we didn't.

Chitwood: Should we talk about that?

Taylor: Yes

Chitwood: So on July 28, 1992 at 10 o'clock at night I received a phone call from one of the graduate students prince and Scott hole and thought you might want to know Black Hawk is burning, I go yeah my offices, and residence life was in the basement Black Hawk at that time. Yeah I think I do you want to know. so I jumped in my car and parked over somewhere by green Hagan and the chief of police Greg brewer was on the sidewalk with his walkie-talkie any motion to me Taconic to come on up and says to stick right next to me you were the highest ranking in ministry eater that I can find in the city tonight. There's fire trucks everywhere they're pouring water on the black cock and it's burning the food service director was at his cabin up north and were talking about this 01:12:00before cell phones and cabins and have phones, Ed Smith the system chancellor of student affairs was in Waupaca and he didn't have a phone in his cabin, they sent shares department out to advise them. Are chancellor Penson in a meeting, Assistant Chancellor Billion was not to be found, he was found at midnight he finally arrived, so we got that all done at midnight, oh 1 AM assisted Chancellor I will see you at my office tomorrow morning at 7 o'clock we go to start planning. I mean black cost is Burt and that was one of our two food service areas in the bookstore was there so at 7 o'clock the next morning I park in and I'm walking across the parking lot over by Reeve, and I looking at comes this car it's the vice chancellor Walter James, and I go oh my word, we forgot 01:13:00to call the second in charge of the University. Walter was very academic though he rolled down his window and said Jim what's going on and in a calm voice I said well Dr. James Blackhawk we had a fire and it burned last night but we have it under control in the fires out. And he said well I'm sure everything is under control have a good day Jim and he drove away. So anyways that was on Wednesday, so right away we knew Thursday morning that that Blackhawk would not be restored, we could not feed everyone in Elmwood comments, Elmwood swears it was a common sets an office building now. We couldn't feed them all there but we had, excuse me, we had a river commons but it was mothballed the cafeteria part. 01:14:00So they contacted I think that company was called black monde, Black monde more mooring out of Atlanta Georgia, a disaster cleaning company, they were flying somebody in I don't know if they got here on Friday or Monday morning but in two or three days they were coming in to assess the damage and what could be done. Well either Friday or Saturday night as I recall, a few days later I'm at a movie with my wife, and we can hear thunder and lightning and storming and raining in in the theater and I walk out and I had to wade up to my knees to get to my car, took my wife home and I need to go to campus, I'm sure there is word out that an EAA was on, and they were bringing people that were flooded out at the campgrounds from the experimental aircraft to bring them into the holes. Well I had to dodge threw town, it took me forever because the city was flooded. 01:15:00Over by Black River excuse me river, they had the drainage change now but it was flooded, River Commons basement filled up to the ceiling. And so here we have a burn down cafeteria and we have a flooded must mothballed cafeteria and students would be arriving in five weeks. What do you do? And so the company came in and they drain the water out and of course to clean out in mothballs kitchen but to clean out a new contaminated kitchen because of floodwater is another story. So they brought in their people and I remember being in the meeting where they were signing contracts and said they would fill in the information later, we are the only company that can do this it's just us or nothing. So keep in mind this is 01:16:00as I recall things you know 25-30 years later. Well they sent out the interview tables out by green Hagan in the parking lot so they had people in lines of people there it adds it was $10 an hour it was to come in and clean, clean, clean, clean, clean. They also had roles were they hired then keep in mind at this time we get to railroads that went through Oshkosh the Sue line and the Canadian national and also the three bridges. Interviewers that arrears or tell them that you're hired but keep one thing in mind we understand that traffic is delayed because of the bridges and the boots going to do the bridges and we understand that the railroad crossings delay people plan for that do not be late or you will be fired. You will be here prior to 7 o'clock to start every morning and work so anyways, the next few weeks they were trying to assess what to do 01:17:00with black cock comments, and then they had to clean it by Labor Day when we check the students in, River Commons was ready and we use River Commons for three years. It took three years for Blackhawk commons to be restored. Not as it is today it was a little bit different, but the bookstore then went over to relieve, they've done some remodeling that was the fire

Taylor: I can only imagine how that went and how stressful that was.

Chitwood: It was an interesting time

Taylor: Is there anything else that you would want to talk about maybe the biggest thing that you can remember?

Chitwood: I think one of the things that I understand is that Scott its way starting in 2016 and 2000? And I became the dean of students, or freshman 01:18:00orientation was a disaster it had been a disaster for a few years students want to go to if students want to come to campus, some of the some of the events, it was just not going very well. So I spent most of the summer in the evenings probably 2 to 3 nights a week redesigning freshman orientation event called the Odyssey. I don't know if that's if we took a new name or if we use the old name. But we redesigned it totally. Odyssey has been going on for 15 years as we knew it and for some reason the curtain a ministration has determined it doesn't fit today so they changed it. We went from a few hundred students attending odyssey 01:19:00to almost every freshman attending almost every Odyssey event over a Sunday Monday and Tuesday morning. We had to speakers come in and we did a lot of fun seems, we got faculty to come in on Monday morning in teaching hour and 15 minute class on how to succeed as freshman, they volunteered to come in, they got a shirt and add to it tuna salad sandwich at lunch or something. They would come in a freshmen would get their first class so they were so afraid on their first day.

Taylor: What's a good vice that you would give her is her something else that you wanted to say question?

(He was going through his VITA)

Chitwood: I'm just kind of….

Taylor: I was reading through that and I was just holy moly there's just so much stuff on there

Chitwood: What are some other things you'd like to know? About community work a little bit. One thing that I, I did not win this battle for a long time, I got 01:20:00it took me 10 years to win this battle. I was on this, I forgot the name of the committee, but eventually it led to the Martin Luther King banquet that we had. I just can't recall the name, but the first Martin Luther King events that we had on campus the community came in it was very nice but there is a bar there. And I'm OK to start at 5 o'clock on a Monday and I'm thinking doing really need to have a bar event like this? And so I went to the advisory committee in 01:21:00Plymouth this, and it was a community action group with University and put, the city won't come to this event if we don't have alcohol served. Yeah they had to pay for it but I'm thinking really we don't need a bar. So we had a bar for several years but I've noticed in the last five or six years they stopped having a bar and you know what the room is still filled with lots of people because they're there to celebrate Martha Martin Luther King and his legacy in all the clubs and organizations and happenings in Oshkosh are there to remove a great understanding of the races it does not have to be stimulated by cop I cocktail or beer. I give myself partial Credit for leading this I went to this committee 01:22:00four times in a row and every time they're always we know exactly where Dr. Truitt is here.

Taylor: What are some of things that you're still involved with. I know you aren't working any of the schools or anything but what are some things that you're still taking farted and that still have a rule of education.

Chitwood: When I retired in October 2009, I heard some rumblings in March that I was being looked at as a possible campaign chair for United Way and I at a just desserts event in Neenah when I was approached by two people asking would I consider being the campaign chair and I said well I'll consider. A few weeks later, the director Sue asked me to go to lunch and we'll talk about it. I would 01:23:00joke around saying I'm expecting some candlelight dinner and in walks. In walks Bobben and in walks Ted and in walk Sue and in walks two others there's now a table of about eight. So I agreed to be the chairperson of that campaign it went very well I used a lot of my contacts at the University and throughout the city and we had a good campaign. It is at it ended like in June or April. In July, I get a call from the director Sue and she says, Jim can we meet I need to talk to you, yesterday my director walked in while I was at lunch and put her letter recommendation letter of resignation on my desk with her keys and walked out the door. The campaign starts in a month, you know something about United Way might I hire you as a consultant to come in and run it? There was a guy, he would come 01:24:00in as my marketing director. I bet the person saw that it's probably so late now and they just walked out the door I don't know. It's not like she was of retirement age. So we put together a campaign and I was the marketing director for a year and I was not interested in that's when the former basketball coach was hired and Sue the executive director created another part-time job and asked if I stayed on for special projects. I stayed on that for two years I retired from that or year and a half ago. I'm still active in United Way, I work with retirees concerning gifting, the retirees of UW Oshkosh. I currently serve on 01:25:00the black wolf Township zoning board, I serve on the town and water utility board in Black wolf. Black Wolf Township is a township that south of Oshkosh. And that's where I live. I have been an active member of Rotary since 1981 or 82 that's when I joined. I've been very active I'm going to commit either I was on leadership for 15 years. I am currently serving on the Winnebago County conflict resolution center of Rizzo since 95 I think major might be up either because I want to be or because it needs to be that's probably a bit about a year too. I am Active in Algoma united Methodist church. I was one of their original man 01:26:00that helped with the voices of men in the Fox valley, mid against violence, domestic violence and sexual abuse I was very active in that for several years. I am still the current service treasurer campaign treasurer

Taylor: you are definitely pulled in every which direction

Chitwood: On the Oshkosh areas school district education foundation as a board member. I guess that's pretty much what I'm doing right now, it's enough to keep me out of trouble. Oh yeah that I'm on a new committee, that's the University Wisconsin Oshkosh, they are forming a retiree group and I'm trying to think of 01:27:00what the name is, I was not on here for some reason but anyways. It is a retiree, we are forming a group and it will be a fundraising group going to be called the association of UW Oshkosh retirees and so we have a group of faculty, academic staff and classified staff that will all be active in that for a while, other than that I try to play a little bad golf, spend time with the grandkids, I have six the oldest is 10 and the youngest is too. We spend time is her mother's seafood live in retirement homes. We have a farm in southern Wisconsin River property down there that we get down to. I'm a gardener and are you still guarding a lot and just do those kind of things

Taylor: So what is vice would you give current college students or maybe even current faculty for other people that hold your positions?

Chitwood: Again, I have to go back to you some basic things: don't isolate yourself, you know, look at the broad picture of the University. As a student maintain a great grade point average, don't limit yourself to just the classroom, try to find a group associate club or an organization that will benefit you and pick out something that's just fun to you. If you're going to be working on your BBA, you don't have to join the BBA or finance club or the business club. Join a fraternity comment, join a residence hall government get 01:29:00on the homecoming committee the games night. Don't think I don't know if they still have them or not but the games nights really bring a bunch of board games over to Reeve?

Taylor: I think they do actually and they have movies and stuff where they try to get everyone involved.

Chitwood: Involved in those activities. Go to some of the theater shows, my wife and I went to the spelling bee musical last week, it was hilarious mostly adults and not many students most of the students are there probably watching a friend

* While transcribing the interview, the system crashed and I was not able to transcribe the last 5mins of the interview. Within the last 5 mins, he gave more advice to faculty and students. Then I said my thank you to him for meeting with me and that concluded the interview.