NL: Today is Monday May 2nd. It is around 5:15. We are in Waupaca. My name isNate Larsen. If you would all state your names please.
JT: Jim Trantow
BS: Bob Steidl
CO: Cindy Oerter
DB: Dick Bidwell
NL: And I gave you guys all your forms and we are going to try to talk for aboutan hour. Alright we will start chronologically here. Alright where did you all grow up?
DB: Scandinavia Wisconsin (laughs) and I was in Manasha
NL: Can you tell me a little bit about what it was like growing up, like your community1:00
BS: Well Menasha was great because back in the 50s we didn't have to worry aboutanything. We would walk 2 miles. We didn't have to worry about any issues or crime. We didn't have to worry about drugs. It didn't exist at that time to us.
DB: Me and my buddies we would hop on our bikes and we'd be gone and the onlyrule was be home by when the street lights came on. I mean we were just free to go and play with the kids around the corner; Butch, Putsy, and Todo. Putsy ended up becoming a Delta Sig at Oshkosh over the years.
CO: And I grew up in the country and went to country school. There was only twoin my class and many times only twelve to fifteen in the whole school. And we just played outside, I just remember playing outside. All the time, I don't 2:00remember being inside in winters. And we always walked to school in the winter no one ever drove us.
DB: You were number two in your class if I remember right (laughs)
CO: I was (unclear) (laughs) And then I went to Waupaca High School. Well I wentas an 8th grader and then and then in high school (unclear)
JT: Bob you went what? St. Mary's
BS: I went to St. Mary's in Menasha, Catholic 12 years, grade school high school
JT: I went to Menasha
NL: Alright, so how many family members did you all have?
BS: I had a total of three
NL: Could you tell me about them possibly?
DB: Younger brother is 14 years younger, he just passed away a year ago with aheart surgery, he was a banker in US Bank in Green Bay and my sister lives in Silicon Valley and is married to a dentist out there and has 3 grandchildren 2 3:00kids my family has 2 kids and one went to Oshkosh. He just graduated a couple years ago in business school, and my sister went to Oshkosh for 2 years and then she got her masters at Berkley right at the peak time of... protests
CO: Drugs (laughs)
BS: Well I'm the youngest of 4. My sister is 12 years older than I am and shehad 7 children. My brother is 9 years older than me and he had 5. My other brother is only 16 months older than me and he had 2 kids. And I'm the youngest and I'm still looking.
JT: He isn't married yet
BS: Never been married but I'm still looking
JT: Any kids?
BS: I don't believe (laughs)
JT: Thought I would ask
CO: I am the oldest of 4. I have 2 younger brothers and a younger sister. We all4:00graduated from college. All professional people. My sister is still a speech therapist in Iola and she lives on the family farm now. My brothers are both in Atlanta area. And let's see, I have 2 children. My husband and I have 2 children. 2 boys that graduated; one from Madison, and one from Oshkosh
DB: He's a Delta Sig
CO: My husband is a Delta Sig
NL: From Oshkosh?
CO: Yes, and I was a Delta Zeta and so was (unclear)
NL: You were a Delta Zeta at Oshkosh?
BS: Easy Deezy (laughs)
CO: Shut up (laughs)JT: I am an only child, so I didn't have to learn to share5:00with anybody. I had friends so I didn't have brothers until I joined the fraternity. So only child.
NL: So what type of racial, ethnicity things were around in that time with your city?
JT: We had zero blacks
CO: We didn't have any black people... wait
DB: We had Mexicans
CO: Yeah. In Scandinavia I went to Sunday school with Loopy (unclear), who hermother had married a guy from Mexico and there was like 3 children that were... and she was very much a curiosity, I remember meeting her when I was 4 and she had earrings and she was dark skinned. But that was it, you know, oh you're 6:00different oh okay. And she's still a friend.
NL: So you would say most to all of your experiences came after college orduring college
JT: During college
BS: During college, there was one in Menasha there was one family that was(unclear) Indian like from Menominee. But when you're that age you never knew they were
JT: And so were the Webster's, father Webster was...
CO: Well in high school
JT: But we had a few American Indians in Menasha. No blacks. I don't know ifit's true or if its (unclear) but they used to say that we had a sundown law in Menasha that blacks weren't allowed in after sundown.
BS: But we never had any to start with
JT: Well when the Globe Trotters came to town they had to go stay in Appleton
NL: This was in the 60s?
JT: Probably the 50s. And there was a family... earlier, Bucanon or something7:00
BS: But basically like 1/1000 of 1%
JT: Our big ethnic in Menasha was Pollocks. Polish
NL: It's not still like that is it?
NL: Is there more...
BS: We have less than 1% blacks in this county
CO: You know what's interesting? When you talk about it we did have Mexican... aMexican family in high school. But they were cool guys. The raois brothers.
JT: And they became Sig Taus at Oshkosh.
BS: Both went to Oshkosh and the sister went to Oshkosh too.
JT: Very popular
BS: (unclear) They were migrant families and they moved here. They bought (unclear)
JT: Good looking, popular
BS: (unclear) and then they moved back to Mexico. Great story.
DB: And one of them was here for (unclear) 50th class reunion this summer, Iforget which one.
JT: In Clemons Hall, I was there all 4 years, 4th floor we elected a blackpresident. He was the only black in the dorm but we elected him. 8:00
DB: We had a young black fellow, pledge Delta Sig. But then his black brotherson campus persuaded him that he probably shouldn't affiliate with us.
BS: They discriminated
DB: Kinda reverse
BS: Yeah reverse discrimination
NL: So growing up, how important was church to you and how did it effect you andyour family?
JT: Well, he's a minister...
NL: You're a minister?
DB: Yeah, so it was... casual (laughs) (unclear) We were active in church I meannot fanatics or anything but Lutheran, and a big church, active in luther league. I knew, I thought pretty seriously that I was planning on going to 9:00seminary and I was even looking at (unclear) college and Lutheran college. I went and talked to my pastor and and he said...and I always thought he was pretty bright. He said if you think that you are going to be a minister, I suggest that you go to a state school. He said find out what life is all about. You can always... and so I went to Oshkosh and found out what life was all about (laughs) and 10 cent beers (laughs)
CO: We went to Sunday school every Sunday. We went to church all the time and asgrowing, and Luther league, and all that. Catholics were a little you know... you shouldn't be dating Catholics. I mean I had a really great boyfriend but he was Catholic and I couldn't be serious.
DB: We didn't have trouble with blacks we had trouble with Catholics. (laughs)Pastor Rose said you probably don't want to date a girl who wears a cross around her neck because she's probably Catholic (laughs) (unclear) 10:00
BS: And I'm Catholic and I never knew that growing up (laughs)
NL: See my grandpa was Lutheran and my grandma was Catholic so that was a bigfamily ordeal I guess back then
CO: Oh yeah
DB: Yeah that's what I mean, it was a big deal
CO: And what year were they married about, do you remember? Because it wasprobably the era from our era.
DB: 40s... 50s?
NL: My grandma is like 85 now so
DB: Probably before us (unclear)
CO: But I always... I just have to put this in here, when I was in high schooland at Luther league I always prayed to be a missionary, and I went to Oshkosh (laughs) and that's where the mission field began (laughs)
BS: We came from a pretty strong Catholic family. I mean 12 years of Catholiceducation. So we went every Sunday and every holy day, and I still do to this day.
JT: He hasn't missed church
NL: That's good11:00
CO: Actually we probably all are strong in our religions
JT: My father was the trustee of the church which meant I did everything at thechurch as a young kid; snow blowing, mowing, painting, Christmas scenes, sang in the senior choir because they didn't have any seniors. So I sang in the senior choir with the pastor, Dave Lindsey, and 3 other boys. And my choir director was my English... I mean my high school choir director. Did the MYF thing, church camps...and I lived 3 houses away from the church so
DB: And your still active in the...
JT: Oh! Today I probably go to church more than anybody that's around hereexcept maybe him
DB: Well I work at the church so
NL: Hard to beat that (laughs)
CO: Well, and I'm on our church council (unclear)
BS: I was on ours (unclear) in fact I go twice a week, I go to the Fridaymorning and every Saturday or Sunday.
NL: Were there any other groups, like Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts, or anythingelse that sticks out to you that made you were? 12:00
BS: To me the Boys Brigade in Neenah. Now it's the Boys and Girls Brigade. Butthat was (unclear) all my extra time over there, and we had groups on different subjects all the time, and then I was on the rifle team and we traveled to the Milwaukee sports show
JT: We have an island here that has a camp (unclear)
BS: Camp Oneway is owned by the Brigade. And that's a very... formation wisethat was very important
DB: Military. And that's a unique organization to me (unclear)
DB: Yeah. Boy Scouts for me.
CO: 4H. I was in 4H from 10 until 18
JT: My mom was a den mother... grew up through the program. Ended up being anExplore Advisor out of college and started the first lady... coed Explore Post in the state of Wisconsin
DB: Really? Good for you. Where?
NL: Alright! We'll move on to high school here. What was your high school yearslike, how would you describe them?
DB: Lots of girlfriends, God almighty (laughs)
NL: Too Many?
DB: No, I mean nothing really stands out other than...
BS: (unclear) This is an early 60s for me, it was kinda (unclear) you went toall your classes
DB: You went class but... basketball games on Friday night was a big deal, youknow football games
CO: School dances, prom (unclear)
DB: I was on the student senate. I was president of the senior class. And...usually pretty active, I... wasn't all that much into sports. Tennis, I played tennis. Everybody expected me to play basketball but I did't (laughs)
JT: Good thing you didn't do football (laughs)
DB: But I mean, going to the football games and basketball games, that was big social
CO: It was!
BS: The prom
DB: Oh yeah. Prom, homecoming...
DB: Winter dance, (unclear) all of that stuff.14:00
JT: Add to what you ... you were dating already back then.
CO: Yeah, I did a lot of dating
JT: Dated her husband
NL: Really, in high school?
JT: Oh yeah. She... she was our, what do you call it? In our fraternity.
BS: Hot, hot
CO: I was hot. (laughs) Still am! (Unclear)
JT: Yeah. She was Delta Sig sweetheart.
CO: In high school I did a lot. We were in musicals, sang musicals, we were inplays, I was editor of the annual, you know... we just did all that fun stuff you know? Student council
DB: I sent Dan Sunstagen an email today saying that you were coming to meet withus and said somebody wants to know about the good old days, he writes back, he says do you think you can remember? (laughs)
BS: Another brother (laughs)
NL: So what were your goals in high school for college and what were yourparent's goals?
DB: Get out (laughs) (unclear)
BS: This was the Vietnam era, you wanted to stay in.15:00
NL: So you all wanted to go to college for that?
JT: So you didn't get drafted, for men anyway.
CO: Well the guys, and for me I just... we were expected in our home that's whatwe would do and we just...but we were never expected to come back
DB: Because you're all professionals
CO: Yeah, well we never expected to come back home. And we didn't, we just neverdid. And I actually had a goal when I was... I knew that my parents didn't have a lot of money, and I knew I had to get through, so when I was a sophomore I made a decision of what I was going to do when I was a sophomore and found...we had terrible guidance counselors at that time.
DB: It's still terrible
CO: Are they still terrible? Yeah they are, and so I ended up going through theguidance councilor's office and finding what I wanted to do.
JT: I didn't give you the, my high school part of it. Played all 3 major sports.I was in band, first chair trombone. (unclear) all state tournament. I wasn't 16:00any prom court or anything like that. So I did the singing and the playing. I didn't think that I was qualified for college because I had a very intelligent class.
JT: IBM patent people, you know lawyers, doctors. But I decided in my senioryear, just give it a shot and went to Oshkosh, I thought. I knew Madison I wouldn't make it so I went to Oshkosh instead.
NL: Did you have any family members before you that were in college?
BS: Nobody in my whole family
CO: My mom
DB: Yeah, I mean...
BS: Cousins, but not immediate
NL: Not immediate?
BS: I had cousins that graduated from Madison
DB: Yeah. My uncle was a dentist, the other one was a vet. Nurse, you know... (unclear)
BS: But not my immediate
DB: My father didn't go to college. It was also the era, well getting off the track...17:00
JT: Well, World War II
DB: That my dad worked for Kimberly Clark his entire life.
BS: My dad worked for (unclear) his entire life.
DB: You didn't even think changing, and the company was loyal to the people andthe people were loyal to the company and ... that was it.
NL: Were there any other colleges you considered? Or toured?
JT: I think we all probably applied to others
BS: I didn't. I decided like you at the last minute to go to college and Oshkoshwas convenient and close. But I didn't want to commute so I stayed in Reece Hall the second year after it was built.
DB: I just don't really, I mean I thought about Carthage only because of thechurch thing. But I don't think I applied any place else...
BS: I didn't
DB: And my dad said... don't commute you know, you're going to miss out on whatcollege life is all about.
BS: I have a saying that I taught his kids as they were growing up and his wife(unclear) I said, I came to college to get an education and studies come second. (laughs) 18:00
JT: And that's very true.
CO: That's probably right.
BS: (unclear) I got 12 credits in the union. (laughs) (unclear)
JT: He was Mr. Union.
DB: My dad used to wonder why it was taking me almost 5 years and I said dadit's because I'm learning so much outside the classroom (laughs) you know, which was true.
CO: B&B (laughs)
DB: But also I, as president of the fraternity we interviewed and hired a housemother. We interviewed and hired a full time cook. (unclear) I mean we were running a house for 30 some people you know, and paying the property tax and collecting the money...
JT: Yeah, good business training
DB: And yeah, and then the B&B, and the college inn, (unclear)
BS: The pool hall
CO: And your place. Your place was good
DB: The circus
BS: The store (unclear)
DB: We had party houses
BS: I was out of college a year and I bought student housing. And so I owned oneplace called the store and it used to be a store and we made that into a bar room. 19:00
NL: Was the drinking age 18 then?
NL: Just beer or everything?
BS: 10 cent taps at the B&B (unclear)
CO: He had a tap right there in the refrigerator
JT: But the age was 18, that's what made us famous. (laughs) Because Milwaukeewas 21
DB: And then there was a tavern right on...
NL: Was it a county thing?
DB: Well it depended...
BS: Well state, 18 was state. (unclear) Certain areas might have...
JT: No it was not
DB: I mean, certain cities were and certain cities weren't
BS: I'm saying like Milwaukee might have been 21 but I think in general it was18 for drinking
JT: Madison was 18 I believe. Kenosha was 21.
DB: City of Menasha was not 18 but the town of Menasha was 18 so (unclear)
BS: It must have been a regional thing. But for us it was always 18. (unclear)17 actually, my brother's I.D.
JT: But that's what set us up, to be what we became. (laughs) No really.
NL: Alright so moving into college what do you remember about being a freshmanand your first few weeks adjusting.
JT: I cried when my mother and father left... No I did.20:00
BS: I can remember the day that they dropped me off (unclear) one car full ofstuff and it got unloaded and I watched them drive away and that was it. I wasn't ever homesick or anything... I still remember that day.
CO: Yeah, I was real excited to be away. And we didn't have much...
JT: No you did't have... a quarter a day was all you could spend. Budget wise.I'm not kidding.
CO: It was the first year we were in Gruenhagen. I think I was the first classto be in.
NL: Gruenhagen really?
CO: And I was up on the 10th floor
JT: Yeah, Scott and Gruenhagen were first built.
CO: It was an elevator, we got into an elevator with all of our stuff and bye mom.
BS: Met your roommate.
DB: I had just gotten back from, I spent that summer before in Africa. And justgot home (unclear) I mean I didn't have time to think. I remember my dad being real awkward, like he thought that he was supposed to say something profound. 21:00(unclear) And then I was curious to see who my roommate was.
JT: Yeah, that was a big one.
DB: And it turned out...
NL: You didn't know who your roommate was before?
DB: No, but he was as tall as I was. I mean he was as skinny as I was and wecould exchange cloths. (laughs) And we pledged together.
JT: That was a big one.
NL: Really? In your fall class? Fall of freshman year did you all pledge?
DB: No... second semester freshman year.
BS: You filled out a form ahead of time, you know likes and dislikes and theymatched, tried to match you up according to...
DB: And he was a year older. He was a sophomore. (unclear) And I was best man inhis wedding. And we're still on Facebook and communicating with each other.
NL: Did any of you pledge in your first semester?
DB: You couldn't.
NL: No you couldn't then?
BS: Couldn't then.
DB: You had to second semester freshman...
BS: And have a grade point, I mean you had to at least have a 2 point.
NL: Oh okay. See I did my fall class freshman year.22:00
NL: But I think they used my high school G.P.A. In don't know if that's changed, but...
JT: Well good that you did it early.
DB: And we were on of the (unclear) I think only the second pledge class forEpsilon Beta. Because before that we were Delta Kappa.
BS: I was a charter member because they were Delta Kappa. (unclear) So then wewere the first pledge class that all went in together for the national. So I'm on the charter...
NL: In 1965?
BS: Yup, so that should be hanging in their fraternity house. My name should beon there.
DB: Delta Sigma Phi was the third that the group belonged to. Iota Alpha Sigma,then Delta Kappa, and then Delta Sigma Phi.
NL: What made you guys decide to switch?
DB: Delta Kappa as a national fraternity went out of business.
NL: Oh really?
DB: And so... and Iota Alpha Sigma was a local at Oshkosh. And before that it23:00was the Industrial Arts Society. Iota Alpha Sigma, Industrial Arts Society. Then Iota Alpha Sigma, then Delta Kappa, and then Delta Sigma Phi.
JT: I joined late my second part of my junior year because I was an RA. Ialready knew, I knew Dick and we were on Union Board. I knew over 1,000 students. That's hard to believe isn't it.
BS: We knew a lot of people in those days.
JT: And he knew everybody in the Union. I knew enough people.
DB: Yeah Jim and I were on social committee together. We'd plan...
CO: I studied though a lot.
NL: Did you?
CO: Yes I did
BS: Studied Greg is what you studied.
CO: No! (laughs) I studied hard. (unclear) I did, I did.
JT: I had to ask my head resident if I could pledge because RAs were not allowedto do that.... and he let me do it. (unclear)
DB: Did you smoke?
DB: Everybody smoked.
NL: What your classes like? Before the internet and you could just look stuffup. How much time did you spend in the library every week?
JT: First of all, there was no computers
NL: Typewriters right? Like the small ones.
DB: Oh we were lucky if... (unclear)
BS: Yeah and not electric either.
DB: I had an electric one. (unclear)
BS: Luckily I took typing my senior year of high school, not even knowing if Iwas going to go to college. And am I glad I did.
JT: And you talk about communications, the big thing was trying to connect withpeople on campus because all you had was a payphone at the end of the hall. So usually every year a Delta Sig pledge, one of their pledge project was to put together a little booklet with all the telephone numbers on the payphones all around. Especially in the girls dorms (laughs) now you don't even think of that.
NL: What are all your majors? And were there any classes or anything that madeyou decide on that? 25:00
BS: I knew I was going to go into business right away. And then when we were inthere, that's when they brought in a guy from California that got the business school accredited. And then we just went into the PBA program. (unclear)
JT: And I followed him... (unclear)
BS: I think our class ones that were given (unclear)
DB: First semester took whatever was required and I remember speech 101 wasrequired. And it was the only class I got an A in so I thought I'm going to be a speech major. (laughs) And then I had a radio and TV emphasis and I think it was the forerunner of...
CO: So my major was biology and my minor was chemistry.
BS: She had to study
DB: You did study I guess (laughs)
CO: And I had to get done in 4 years, (unclear) and a laboratory. And you knowmy parents didn't have a lot of money. I had to get...
BS: Get done
CO: And at that time, you know, for mine I knew what I was going to do. And so26:00it was all programed out... and it was, you didn't have classes that were full...
BS: You had a catalog. You checked them off.
CO: And so classes were all prearranged as long as I didn't fail.
DB: Registration you had to go to the gym and stand in line for hours (unclear)
NL: So you all had to wait in line...
DB: And you went to a table (unclear)
BS: No automation.
JT: We didn't know if it was filled or not filled. I would spend a week after Isigned up, and changed my classes for a week. I didn't even go to classes. I spent a week changing my classes.
DB: It was terrible.
CO: You know isn't that funny I don't remember but I know I have to get(unclear) done.
JT: Yeah, just think of what we do ... Google! What if we would have had google?Card catalog, you don't even know what card... Boy I'm starting to sound like my dad. (laughs)
CO: I spent a lot of time in the library. And what I have to tell you, what Iremember about Oshkosh library. In the middle of the 2nd floor there was a 27:00smoking room and it was blue. It was glassed in. And you go upstairs and it was just this big blue room. And if you wanted to smoke you would go in there.
DB: And Delta Sig pledges had to be in the library Monday through Friday from 7until the library closed at night. Or at least our class...
BS: 10 o'clock wasn't it?
DB: 10 o'clock I think and usually you had PT outside afterward. But you had tosign in and there were actives in the smoking room usually that you had to report into. And we at least pretended to... (unclear)
BS: We did pledge trips back then (unclear) on the highway at 5 o'clock onFriday. We would hitchhike to Transylvania College in Lexington Kentucky. (laughs)
JT: And Monday was 12 week exams.
DB: And we would go to New York. (unclear)
NL: Didn't you have to be back by Sunday?28:00
DB: Monday morning you're supposed to be in class...We only had to go to Iowabecause there were three of us and they thought that it would be harder to get around.
BS: It is.
NL: And then did you hitchhike back or what?
DB: Yeah (unclear)
NL: You could though then right? It was safer right?
DB: They strip searched you before you left and you weren't allowed to take morethan $5. All the money for your toothpaste or...
CO: And I remember Greg said you would eat either an onion or garlic before (unclear)
DB: Oh we were always eating onions.
JT: Yeah we won't get into that until later. (laughs)
NL: What was it like to live on campus? You said you were an RA right? What wasthat like?
JT: I had a good balance. I was in charge of...well because of the 18 year oldbeer drinking we would be there a week early to get things done. Milwaukee kids would come up and they get sick the first week. They couldn't handle beer and that they couldn't handle themselves.
DB: They went wild (laughs)
JT: And we would throw them in the shower. We would plug all drains up. And just29:00fill, we had swimming pools in the bathroom.
NL: With the kids in there?
JT: Yeah. (laughs)
BS: A friend of ours he had an alligator, a little baby alligator. And we wouldfill it up to the top where you step into the shower and he would swim all over the place. (laughs)
JT: So it was basically taking care of that. And then a lot of them didn't study...
CO: A lot of flunking out.
JT: A lot of flunking out. My roommate, took him 3 years.
DB: I remember there were so many kids my freshman year at Clemons that they putbeds in the basement. There weren't enough rooms. (unclear) But then in 2nd semester enough flunked out that they could move them to rooms. But I lived one year in Clemons and a lot of Delta Sigs came out of Clemons.
JT: Yes they did. Famous ones.
DB: And then the rest of my tenure I lived at the fraternity house. And we hadgood times.
BS: I lived there for a while too.
NL: Did Clemons name change?
JT: No it got torn down.
NL: Torn down?
JT: It was next to the union. It's that real fancy building now.30:00
DB: But that and Fletcher, they ripped that down.
NL: Fletcher is still there.
DB: Oh is it still there? Well then they ripped down Breeze, Clemons, Nelson.
CO: When I went the orientation, freshman orientation, I was sitting in thebleachers I think we were in bleachers and they were talking to us and they said look on either side of you and one of the three of you will graduate. The other two will drop out. (unclear)
BS: So I was looking at the other person. (laughs)
CO: And you know what? Both people on each side of me dropped out within thefirst year.
BS: I remember them saying that.
CO: That's why it stuck in my head because they both were gone.
NL: Didn't women have different rules then? Like a curfew?
JT: No women in the dorms.
BS: Not at all.
DB: And you had to have them back in by 11.
JT: No women. Just lobby.
BS: 11 o'clock they'd blink the lights for 5 minutes and they'd lock the doors.
JT: Just the lobby... I found a naked women up on the 4th floor in the box whereyour cloths is supposed to be. (laughs) Behind the closet. So I went and got my director and get her out of there. 31:00
DB: But on the weekend, I think 12 or 12:30.
DB: But you could sign out.
CO: Well you could sign out if you were going home. (unclear)
DB: Weren't you allowed one or two latest, a month where you could sign out...
JT: Oh the women you mean?
BS: There was making out in the lobby and out on the steps. (laughs)
DB: And then the house mother flip the lights and then...
CO: Oh yeah.
NL: And then they would have to go?
DB: Then kiss goodbye and...
JT: One important date, 1968... the women went bra less. (laughs)
NL: Why was that?
JT: Because they went bra less. (laughs) For the year.
CO: But we still had clothing on over...
JT: Not my girlfriend. (unclear) Oh yeah had a shirt on.
NL: Was there any reasoning behind it?
JT: Yes. It had to do with...(unclear)
DB: Women's (unclear) and burning bras. It was a political...
BS: It started in...
JT: California. Woodstock, do you remember Woodstock?
DB: I don't remember any drugs no marijuana... beer.
CO: The only drug, oh yeah beer, the only drugs, the people that ever had drugs32:00were maybe some guys in a band. You would hear maybe there is some guys in a band.
NL: Really so no drugs?
CO: No drugs.
JT: 69 was the first marijuana on our floor.
BS: And that came from Milwaukee.
JT: And the FBI... the FBI
NL: The FBI came?
DB: I don't every remember ever... (unclear) ever seeing anything like that. (unclear)
JT: (unclear) first drugs.
BS: I never smelled it until I was in the army. I was a Platoon Guide and myPlatoon Sargent was in an academy so he...so we had our own room, everyone else was in the barracks. But he lit up in the room and I said what's that? Well marijuana.
JT: Rarely, I didn't see beer in the dorm. Not that I can remember.
CO: No, no we never had beer in the dorm.
BS: People were pretty straight.
DB: (unclear) because if you got caught...
NL: Just beer for the most part? They were smarter about it, and less drugs, andall that.
JT: It wasn't there yet.
CO: It wasn't available. (unclear)
JT: See Woodstock sort of set the tone for the drug thing.
NL: And that was in 69 right?33:00
JT: I think so yeah. Woodstock?
BS: Earlier because I graduated in 68. So about 66, 67 was marijuana startedhitting (unclear)
DB: But I never saw it. Nobody ever approached. I mean I never saw anybody inthe house ever have it.
JT: No, yeah.
DB: I mean it just wasn't.
NL: How would you describe Greek life at the time? What was geek life like as a whole?
JT: Have you seen the movie Animal House?
NL: Right, yeah. (laughs)
JT: That's us.
NL: Really? (laughs) With the motorcycle and everything?
JT: Everybody in that movie I can relate to somebody that was in our group.(laughs) And I'm not kidding you. You could have wrote the movie (unclear). And I'm not kidding you.
BS: And there were Greeks living over the bars. Like Richie's, and the otherbar. (unclear) And there were parties there. There was a party every weekend. (unclear)
DB: I don't want to say Greeks ruled, but it was very popular (unclear)
BS: We did have the toga party. You still have a toga party?
JT: We had bands.
CO: Yeah! Toga party. (unclear)
DB: Toga party!
BS: The pledges wore a towel.
CO: And we wore sheets.
DB: I think when I pledged... (Unclear) The actives wore sheets and us pledgesgot pillow cases. 34:00
BS: Hell week.
JT: We'll get into that later.
NL: Hell week? We changed that, we can't do it anymore.
BS: Well, we had the hell week of all hell weeks.
JT: Well go on.
CO: But we did a lot of partying.
JT: Yeah. A lot of women. (unclear)
BS: Either a sorority invited our fraternity to a party or we had a party. (unclear)
NL: Is that when there was the Nile party? Like the famous sphinx Nile partythat you guys had?
BS: That might have been where the toga party went to the nile party.
NL: Yeah! Right.
JT: I learned the polka on TV, for three times.
DB: Oh, the pledges had to go do one of those Sunday (unclear) shows.
JT: Yeah. So I know how to polka because of pledging. (laughs)
DB: Pledges wore Delta Sig arm bands. (unclear) And the pledge pin...
BS: Pledge pin!
DB: Even if you took a shower you had to had the pledge pin...35:00
BS: And we had (unclear). They spray painted with a... you know.
DB: A skunk! Our pledges were skunks.
JT: Yeah, I invented that T-shirt. Sunk power! We had the front of the skunk andthen we had the power in the back is rear end. (laughs) That was my idea.
DB: And in the basement of the house was the skunk room. That's where thepledges were kept.
JT: All of us had a cigar and we had an onion. That's what she was referring to.(laughs) You eat the onion while you smoke a cigar. Talk about teary eyed. (laughs)
NL: And you touched on it a little bit but there was the famous pledge trip toNew York that you talked about. What was that?
DB: We went to New York.
BS: 28 rides out 26 rides back. (unclear)
DB: My roommate Dan Sunstock would also (unclear) New York, to (unclear)college. (unclear)
BS: Our pledge class pulled off one of the biggest (unclear). And it made AP thepaper, National.
DB: Were you the horse?
BS: We bought the pony and we... they can go up the stairs but they can't godown the stairs. (unclear) Sondolly was the pledge master. When he was gone we 36:00put the pony in his room with a bail of hay. (laughs) They (unclear) at about 3 in the morning, and brought us out and lined us up. And then he smiled and said we're proud of you.
JT: The movie Animal house came out after we did this. It's in that movie. (laughs)
NL: When it had a heart attack right?
DB: We had a good time. (unclear) But we didn't do anything criminal, malicious...
BS: No. (unclear)
DB: Maybe some people might have thought. But I mean I don't remember any of ourbrothers ever getting in trouble with the cops or...
JT: Well one of our pledge trainers, his brother was...was what's his name?Azerian. (unclear) He was brought up on charges for killing somebody before he came to college. 37:00
BS: He was connected. They were...Racine.
JT: And both of them were mafia. But neat guys.
BS: I don't know about Ned but Azerian definitely. He was scary just to look at. (unclear)
JT: And they're still doing it down in...
BS: You don't want to cross him.
DB: They are Armenian.
JT: Big tough guys.
DB: They had their Uncle Sam who ran a concrete company and... (unclear)
BS: And Ned became a teacher didn't he? He was more mild mannered.
DB: When my son in law walked out on my daughter...and we were down visiting wehappened to stop in and visit (unclear). And he says, well we can take career of that. (laughs) I was just telling you.
BS: Which one said that?
DB: He's recording all of this. (laughs) Never mind that was a joke! (laughs)(unclear) Because my wife was there and my daughter was there. 38:00
JT: He's serious. (unclear)
NL: Were most of your friends in Greek life?
BS: In where?
NL: In Greek life in general or in your fraternity.
BS: Um...no. A lot of Menasha guys went to Oshkosh, either commuted or stayedthere. So it was kind of a mix. But mostly fraternity brothers.
DB: My friends on campus pretty much circulated around the fraternity...
JT: So sorority would be yours.
BS: Our fraternity was a really (unclear) group. Wouldn't you say that? It wasquite a mix.
BS: There was no stereotype in our fraternity.
DB: You weren't the jocks...
BS: Or the studs.
JT: No. We weren't the drunkers.
BS: We were the good guys.
JT: Yeah. We're good guys, clean...
DB: And the girls liked us.
NL: Well the 60s was a real, big historic time with racial and social justice39:00and stuff. Were there a lot of experiences with black or women or anything that...
BS: Well the blacks took over Dempsey Hall...
JT: 68 wasn't it?
NL: Black Thursday. Yeah 68. What was that like?
JT: Well we had 80 blacks from Racine. They came up to the inner school. Theywere official but they came to create that riot. That's the only reason they showed up.
BS: They had no intention of going for 4 years and graduating. They came up tomake a statement.
JT: So they did the sit in the administration building and went from there.
DB: And it was shortly after that...
BS: They were kicked out there weren't 5% that ever came back in school aftertheir semester layoff.
NL: Because that was at the end of the semester almost. The 21st of November I believe.
BS: So I think they were given a suspension for a semester or a year but hardlyany of them came back.
DB: I just don't remember ever being involved or it having an effect me...
BS: Yeah. No we stayed away from that stuff.
JT: Yeah we did.
NL: Yeah, because that was my next question. Were you guys involved or did it40:00effect you guys at all?
JT: In 1970 I was marching down High St. in the National Guard with a bayonetdoing the Nazi step. Against the students. I saw it from the other side.
DB: And we did some protests (unclear). But it had to do with beer. I mean Idon't know... (unclear) I think once the legislature or somebody was thinking about raising the drinking age and then that got everybody excited.
NL: Is that what you wrote about riots and specifically St. Patrick's Day.
JT: Well St. Pats was... We were the big one in the country.
BS: Johnny Carson, on Television said if you aren't going to be in DublinIreland then you better be in Oshkosh Wisconsin.
CO: It was just a party and the whole town...
JT: For, three or four days.
DB: I mean the bars open with green beer and doughnuts.
BS: There were lines in the morning, 8 o'clock, lined up.
JT: People were drunk coming to class at 8 o'clock. (laughs)41:00
DB: And then there was always, there was always some... I had one jerk of aprofessor that declared it be double cut day.
JT: Oh yeah, yeah.
DB: They used to take attendance and you count your absences and if you weregoing to, I mean I just remember this one guy. He was going to double cut me.
BS: Which one was...
DB: I don't remember. Oh, and it was an evening class on top of it you know. Ifyou're not here you're getting a double cut.
JT: See the typical life, was an hour in line to get into one of the bars. Anhour to get into the bars.
DB: B&B, any of them.
CO: Well to the good ones.
JT: Yeah the good ones. Because our population went from 6,000 to 12,000 inthose four years.
JT: I'm not kidding you, you can look it up.
BS: When I started it was 4,000 and it almost doubled overnight.
NL: Is that why they built Gruenhagen, all those big...
BS: Yeah, exactly why.
JT: So you had a lot of that.
BS: I started in 63 so that was the start of it. I remember I was in the dormwhen the word got out that Kennedy was assassinated. And that was November 22nd, 42:00of 63 my first year. Like anybody you don't forget that day.
JT: We were still in high school.
BS: I remember the guy talking across the hall told me about it.
JT: We had a lot of great bands back then which I feel sorry for these kidstoday because there aren't really a lot of good bands. And our music was...
DB: Blood, Sweat, and Tears came for Winter Carnival.
JT: Yeah. And then... I'm trying to think who else.
BS: So did that trio. Because I worked...
JT: Oh, Houston Trio?
CO: The Kingston Trio.
BS: I don't know if it was the Kingston, but I was a guest cook at HowardJohnson's out there and I stayed there. They made a joke and they said, this place is so clean even the clerk at the Holiday Inn is (unclear) (laughs).
JT: We had a lot of great bands. Chicago played, Bill (unclear) played, he wasjust getting started. He was 22, 23.
CO: Who was the Twist and Shout guy?
BS: Twisting Harvey.
JT: Twisting Harvey and The Seven Sounds. VIPs43:00
DB: Alright well let him ask a question.
NL: Well you said being in the National Guard against the riot...
BS: And I'm in the reserves.
NL: What was that like going against...
JT: Well I said I had to do the Nazi step with 160 other guys down High St.through the campus with bayonets on to show force or something.
NL: Was anybody throwing stuff at you or yelling anything...
JT: No, nobody did anything.
NL: How did the times with the war, and all the movements and everything. MartinLuther King...
JT: It was bad
CO: Oh it was hard.
NL: The space race.
BS: Well (unclear) were concerned with Vietnam. (unclear) was up in June, I gota call from the Army reserves in April or I would have been gone June 2nd.
JT: Well I missed it by three days too.
BS: And that was at the time when the Tet Offensive. By the time I would havegone through basic and (unclear) that was where you went before you went before Vietnam, I would have got there just in time for the Tet Offensive which was one of the biggest pushes of the Vietnam War. 44:00
DB: And whenever they did the lottery, I remember the TV room in the frat housewas just, packed because everybody was waiting to see what their number would be.
NL: So if you were in college you wouldn't be drafted right?
BS: Right, four years only though.
JT: C average
BS: And I still had eight credits to go. So I was lucky I got in.
CO: Greg had to go down to Milwaukee.
JT: I was tested.
DB: I did too. I had to go to Milwaukee.
BS: For a physical. (unclear)
JT: But it was very, because we knew that we weren't going to win that war andwe knew that they're just throwing bodies there to get killed. Agent Orange, the whole nine yards so it was just a bad deal. That black kid that was on my floor, he went into the service, came back and he had his eye shot out.
BS: One of my best friends got killed. Second tour, he went back.
NL: Were there a lot of older students that were coming from the war?
DB: Vets club was a big organization on campus, it was almost like a fraternity...
JT: Danny Wilson in our club was a vet. Jimmy Larson was a vet.
DB: They got their own table in the union45:00
JT: Yeah, Jimmy Larson, piolet. Sig Tau.
DB: I don't remember... Joe Jones talks about being in vets club.
JT: Yeah they are using the free GI bill.
NL: So what was the union like? You talked about that a couple of times. Is itstill in Reeve, or was it still the same building?
BS: Reeve yeah, we were on, my second year when they put the first expansion on it.
JT: It's in the back.
BS: I mean it was really small then they made it bigger.
DB: They put the Titian room on. And there was a Delta Sig table from the momentit opened until... because if you were the last one left at the table then you had to then just cut class. Because you had to wait for another brother to come reserve the table.
BS: I always intended to go to the library, you know because I had an hour ortwo hours in between and I start to go and somebody else would come in. And then we would just start talking.
JT: He was Mr. Communication, yeah.
BS: I was an introvert when I started college and out of high school. And that's46:00the best thing that ever happened to me was college to bring me out. That's where I learned about getting an education.
DB: And pledges had to carry gum and cigarettes.
JT: And a lighter.
DB: Because if an active asked for either one you had to be able. And of courseyou could smoke in the union. So I mean you sat there all day and...
JT: That cigarette was lit with a lighter
DB: Just like that.
JT: We had to hold a match and do the Greek alphabet.
DB: The Greek alphabet three times on a lit match.
BS: I learned it too fast. Then they made me learn it backward.
DB: Oh I never got the backward...
NL: Was there anything in pledging that stuck out to you? Or extra hard?
JT: I probably had the hardest pledging class.
DB: Who was your pledge master? Sindolly?
JT: No Taviet.
DB: Oh Taviet, okay.
JT: Alright so I told you about the onion and the cigar. Try running in thewinter time with water in your mouth around the block and then spit that water 47:00out. Because you're breathing through your nose (unclear).
DB: Who was the blind guy?
JT: We had a blind guy?
BS: Erb Bostwick
DB: He was an active. And the scariest thing is when he drove. (laughs) He woulduse a pledge. We would be there, slow down, okay now stop, now turn right.
JT: We would be in the basement, with our cloths off banded. We didn't know ifhot water was coming at us, warm water or cold water. And we would do that for about half an hour.
BS: The first water boarding.
JT: We were up on the third floor in the board room, no cloths on carryingolives from one end, crawling and putting the olives in a jar.
DB: And guess where the olive was?
JT: In your butt. (laughs)
NL: Oh man. Was that during hell week?
JT: Yeah that was hell week.
NL: So most of that was during hell week?
DB: Oh but they would round you up any given night at midnight, 1 o'clock, 2 in48:00the morning.
BS: Take you out and drop you out in the boonies.
JT: Play football in the snow.
DB: Or take you to red arrow park or whatever that was.
BS: Drop you off in Sun Prairie and you had to get home.
JT: Can you picture wearing a suit for a week, having burlap for your underwear,and before that they crack two eggs and put it in the burlap. That was your underwear for a week.
DB: And you weren't allowed to shower or change.
JT: And then you had to have a pencil with a string tight around your testicles. (laughs)
DB: And ask girls to sign your pledge book.
BS: And you wonder why they cut that out? (laughs)
JT: Having the girls sigh in. You had to have twenty signatures every day fromsororities. And they knew what it was about so they would tug on the string. (laughs)
NL: Did you have to go to class like that?
JT: Yeah. Carrying your pledge paddle with you and that band.
CO: It wasn't that bad for the girls.
DB: I have many stories. (laughs)
BS: We could be here all night if you want.49:00
JT: I was a pledge trainer, I cleaned it up the next semester.
NL: Were you? Not that bad anymore?
BS: That was probably the worst of it, a couple here and there. Ours wasn't thatbad before that.
CO: It was those Armenian brothers.
BS: But we used to have what they called the last supper. That was bad. You wereblind folded and the fed you like seven or ten different things. And if you're lucky (unclear). Toothpaste on crackers. Oh just, and then some things they would tell you what they were but they weren't but you thought they were.
JT: I had to polish my big brother's shoes all the time. This guy was hisroommate, he would always throw in his shoes not thinking I knew. But everybody had different orders in their shoes. I knew it was him.
NL: You knew him by the odor?
JT: Yeah. (laughs) And so I'm polishing shoes and shoes and shoes. I should havewritten down everything. 50:00
NL: What was bar life like? Or party life?
JT: Oh shit, you haven't seen it.
JT: You guys don't even come close.
BS: I didn't like beer. I remember digging through a couch to find ten cents innickels and pennies...
JT: Yeah we had ten cent taps.
BS: I would get my one beer and go to the B&B. I would hold the beer all nightand take little sips, just to be in the bar scene. You know everybody was.
NL: So it was more bars than parties back then?
JT: Yes, no, well... but he's talking about house parties.
JT: We were talking about fraternity parties, yes we had a lot of fraternityparties and sorority parties.
BS: We rented a hall, like above a bar...
NL: Like a social?
BS: Yeah! With a sorority.
JT: And we got bands that we (unclear).
DB: Yeah we'd have bands. And then after the fraternity meeting on Tuesday(Unclear) well anyhow then the treasure would say, I think we've got enough in 51:00the slush fund to get a, and then we'd go out to the loft and have a keg.
BS: He don't know what that is, the loft.
DB: Yeah the loft is gone.
JT: It was a big barn on highway 41. (unclear)
DB: And then we'd have a half barrel.
JT: But to get into the bars, and the bars would have over... you couldn't walk.You had to walk sideways. And it was steamy hot. And everybody had their drinks up and then, you know you would end up all over. Girls and guys. You spend an hour in the winter time, minus twenty, minus ten standing in line to get into the bar.
DB: Because if two people came out then they would let two people in.
BS: There's a limit, fire code.
NL: Was it mostly town bars or was it mostly college bars?
JT: College bars.
BS: Yeah, the townies had their own bars like the (unclear)
NL: Okay so you didn't hang out with them?
JT: No they didn't hang out with us and...
BS: They didn't like us.
NL: What was dating like back then?
CO: Great. (laughs)
JT: 68 was bra less let's put it that way. (laughs)52:00
DB: No comment.
BS: Not so different.
CO: We did a lot of parting and I loved it because we dressed up and we hadreally nice, we went to the Dells.
JT: A lot of trips yeah. Yeah we would go to the Dells shack up with some girl. Yeah.
CO: Jeez (laughs)
JT: Three or four of us in the same hotel room.
DB: I don't remember but they talked about the girls, some of the sororitieswould rent cottages here on Chamber Lakes.
BS: Oh (unclear) that went on forever. Not just Oshkosh, all over. Boys andgirls they'd rent cottages (unclear)
DB: But the boys would have to try to work their way in...
JT: I mean it's hard to believe this but the Madison kids came to Oshkosh toparty. And I don't know if it's because the 18 or 21, let's talk about that a 53:00little bit. Danny was going to come tonight but he was sort of the spearhead to me for the St. Patties' thing. Can you imagine standing outside the bar with, I don't know how many people, probably 200. He'd drop his pants in the middle of the street and he'd bend down and show his cheeks to the cars stop traffic. (laughs) And then he'd climb the pole...
DB: Yeah, he climbed the pole.
JT: The power pole, and then he'd take out his wiener and he'd piss on everyonethat's standing in line. (laughs)
NL: And this would happen a lot?
JT: This is a fraternity brother. Oh he...
DB: Well this was... St. Patrick's Day primarily.
JT: Yeah, St. Patrick's Day. The mail truck would get unlocked in the back. Withthe guy at the intersection, the mail would be... pouches would be stolen. (unclear) I watched them do it.
BS: The way that they killed St. Patrick's Day is they changed the spring break,so that you were gone for that time and then it really calmed down. 54:00
DB: They got the kids out of there.
NL: Was there a Delta Sig in Madison at the time? I know they had one.
NL: Did you visit any other Delta Sigs?
JT: Oh sure.
BS: They used to come by us more.
DB: Well I remember going to, upper Michigan to (unclear). I remember going toLa Crosse for their chartering thing. And there was one at White Water, Stevens Point. I remember coming to Stevens Point and we partied all day, and God somebody drove back I don't know that, but anyhow we got to Waupaca and I remember whoever was driving pulled off because they wanted to wanted to (unclear). We got back on the highway and we ended up (unclear) we were back in Stevens Point.
JT: You were going the wrong way? (laughs)
BS: It's only 25 minutes.
JT: When she got married, Dick and I, I don't know if Bob came. Did you come tothe wedding?
BS: I don't remember.
JT: And they had a nice dance or barn or something.
CO: It was barn yeah.
JT: So the guys were looking for a place to stay. I said come to me, it's overin Manawa. My mom woke up the next morning and there's what eight? 55:00
DB: Ten or twelve.
JT: Ten bodies that she didn't know were going to be there laying around. Shesays well we'll have them breakfast and bump bump bump.
DB: And we also went swimming at South Park. I don't know if you were...
JT: No I didn't go into that.
DB: Well I mean I now live on that same lake where where I went...(laughs) Sowhen I hear the diving board at midnight it doesn't bother me. It kind of brings back...memories.
JT: You had all that rock and roll music. We had black bands from Milwaukee comeup with the saxophones. And just the music that we, I mean you guys are still listening to our music. Unreal.
NL: Oh yeah, all the time.
BS: Oh the best music ever.
JT: Well we thought so. (unclear)
BS: You can understand the words, has a good beat, you can dance to it. AndAmerican Band Stand.
JT: You ever hear of whopatooli parties?56:00
BS: That was our fun.
NL: What's that?
BS: You take a garbage can or bathtub and you just pour everything right in it.But we do it right, it could be good you know.
NL: Put all the junk in there and...
CO: Yeah, leftovers.
BS: If you had a good combination of rum and different things.
DB: Now they do it with pills.
NL: We call it jungle juice though tequila and stuff. You talked about snowballfights, what was that?
JT: Bob has more of the history of that, Clemons Hall started that.
BS: A friend of ours, which ended up being a Delta Sig, Charlie McClain God resthis soul, he died about two years ago, or three. But anyway he was an RA and they started out, and it wouldn't have been a big deal but he panicked and called the police. Well once the police showed up then it became a confrontation. They start rocking the police cars and then more people came.
JT: Breaking windshields.
BS: And that's what made it a big deal, a Delta Sig. Otherwise it would havecalmed down within a half an hour.
JT: That became an annual thing.57:00
BS: But Charlie called the cops.
JT: But you had good packing snow. It was like just get out of the way.
DB: But there were like three men's dorms right there.
JT: The guys from my floor stiff armed the union and went right through thedoor, the glass cut his arm up.
DB: Did any of you ever participate in panty raids.
JT: Yeah I was in that.
NL: We learned about that a little bit, we heard about it.
JT: The girls were willing back then. This freedom thing that women you know, itwas a big deal for them.
NL: Alright, well were you guys ready to graduate or did you still want to stayin school.
JT: We had too.
BS: I was ready.
JT: I was ready too.
NL: What was life after college for you, immediately?
JT: Service, drafting.
BS: Well I went into the Army Reserves.
JT: Me too.
BS: That semester I had to come back to get my, and then they added more creditsto me because they changed the catalog. But in the mean time I worked at the 58:00Neenah foundry for two months until I could get back into college.
DB: And I went off to the seminary. (laughs)
JT: How many years was that?
BS: We were all, we all wanted to get to work. I mean I wasn't so much wantingto avoid Vietnam, (unclear) but I wanted to get on with my career.
NL: How did the war effect the job market? Finding a job after...
JT: It was pretty easy to get a job because most of the guys were over there.
BS: Good economy.
JT: Yeah good economy.
NL: How did you get to where you live now currently?
BS: How did I...
JT: Why are you in Waupaca?
BS: Oh because of Boys Brigade, Camp Onaway. I went there every summer for aweek and I said someday I'm going to live on Chamber Lakes. And within five years after college I was living on Chamber Lakes.
JT: She lived here and Greg lived here.
BS: But I moved here and sold real estate.
DB: My wife was originally from here. And so that's how we ended up back here.59:00
JT: I picked Waupaca because I was a forecaster in college. I had a lot of jobsbesides being an RA. So I was a forecaster for a company called Morgan Door and Window which is over by the Pioneer. Remember the Pioneer? That was a big deal for dancing and all that.
BS: Tore it down.
JT: But what was the big restaurant back then so that's on tape? Butch's Anchor Inn.
BS: I used to work for them in high school.
JT: Fantastic place. But anyway, so my job was to work for Mr. Kimberly who wasthe grandson of Kimberly Clark. He was a big deal but he ran this big company. And so my management professor says you'll do a paper on forecasting for them. And so I got an A plus on the paper and I basically you're going to be toast in five years. You won't be existing. It took them four years,
Stock went to zero. But as a result of me doing all that studying of the need Ibecame a home builder and a realtor, he's a realtor, because if you follow our generation and make money off our generation you will do well. (unclear) So I 60:00looked at Waupaca, We have the best water in the state of Wisconsin, for drinking you're drinking it right now, We have the best brewery right up in Amherst and that's the reason they came here from another spot.
NL: For the water?
JT: Yeah, and we have a fish hatchery in Wild Rose. I asked the DNR why that'sthere and it's because of our water. 32 million span one side of the highway and 22 on the other side. They do Lake Michigan and they do the state of Wisconsin. So we have work ethic, which our foundry, we have the largest foundry in the nation here in Waupaca. Three plants.
BS: The Veterans home. And highway intersections. (unclear)
JT: The Veterans home. 700 people work there. You are at the crossroads ofWisconsin right here. And that hotel over there right, he has lots of conventions because it's easy to get to. You're also (unclear). But were also 61:00number two in retirement for the entire state.
NL: Like age wise?
JT: Population wise. (unclear) People like living here.
DB: It's a great quality of life. A lot of stuff goes on.
JT: Ministers retire here.
DB: I would say if you're bored in Waupaca it's your own fault, you can hardlykeep up.
JT: So what was the question, Oh so that's why I picked Waupaca? And because ofthe casino life. I was one at the casino for dancing.
BS: It's not a casino as you know it's a name of a bar on a lake.
JT: We would have 700 kids there a night.
BS: And Rickey Nelson came here, a dozen names like that.
NL: How did Oshkosh and college in general prepare you for your future? Anything62:00in particular?
JT: It gave me some confidence.
CO: And that's where I got the training for my job.
DB: It kind of brought us out and in high school I wasn't shy but it was thefraternity that brothers and a group and you were never alone. You never had to worry about who to go out with.
JT: But a friend of ours, Pete Culvers four major universities and was asked toleave all four because he never checked the book out and only went to 28% of his classes. He comes to Oshkosh and graduates. Lives out of the trunk of a car. But 63:00I asked him what the best school he ever went to was and he was serious, he said Oshkosh and this is the key, he said because in Oshkosh there weren't clicks. In Madison you only knew 20,30 people. (unclear) So that's a feather in our hat.
NL: To wrap it up here, do you have any advice for students to for life in general?64:00
JT: I have lots of advice (unclear)
BS: I would say, honesty integrity, Treat others the way you want to be treated.Right down to that.
CO: If I talk to kids in high school I say make goals, set goals and achievegoals and keep setting them all the time.
DB: Don't be afraid of new experiences, within reason of course. And all of thatother good stuff too. 65:00
JT: (unclear) and as an RA I used to be able to bring people's grades up If Isat with them. (unclear) Sit in the front row, in the middle of every class you go into. He sat in the back, I sat in the front in the middle. Take notes, different color pens. When to study when not to study. Don't study on weekends until Sunday at 6 o'clock. Quit on Fridays, go have fun (Unclear) And there is four major decisions you will make in life. Who you marry, what you do, Children, where you live. Everything else flip a coin, you'll be right 50% of 66:00the time. People get hung up on these little decisions, When you die and look back it's the kids you have the wife you marry the job you had and the friends you have.
DB: For the sorority it's probably the same but many of our brothers arelifelong friends. I mean not everybody but we all have some that you are in their wedding, you're the God father for their child.
JT: As soon as we knew you were a Delta Sig, you are part of our family.
NL: That was the main reason I picked you.
JT: Oh okay