Interview with William Bartlett, 04/23/2018

UW Oshkosh Campus Stories
Egan Ansorge, Interviewer | uwocs_Bill_Bartlett_04232018_uc.mp3
Campus Stories Oral History Project (UWO Audio Series 51) |

0:00

EA: Alright, so like I said were just going to start off with the um the background info. Um..

BB: Okay.

EA: So, could you tell me a little about um where you grew up and what that was like for you?

BB: Sure, I can. Um, okay. I was born in Saint Marys Hospital. Which is no longer. Saint Marys it was just off of Merritt.

EA: Okay

BB: And when I came out of the hospital um, dad and mom moved to the Indian Trail. Um, thats on Algoma. I dont know whether its still named the Indian Trail or not.

EA: I dont think It is. I havent heard that name.

BB: Okay, well Indian Trail was old as the hills. I stayed there until brother Dave three and a half years later. Then they made a move to Morgan Daveys House, 1:00which is now the multicultural house on 415 Algoma.

EA: Huh, I actually live umm, the multicultural house is right outside my window where I live now in the dorms.

BB: No kidding?

EA: Yeah, I live in Taylor Hall

BB: Oh you live in one of the halls. Okay. Alright well I wouldnt bet that long long long post-dates me. When I went to school (unclear) probably only um, seven to eight hundred.

EA: Hmm,

BB: That was when Polk was the um president.

EA: Okay

BB: And he had Kolf. Kolf Sports center, the old limestone thing that was um between Dempsy and Harrington. And, um, kind of got out voted and got torn down 2:00unfortunately. And so I used to walk to school in 14 to 15 and I went to Training School um all nine grades except fourth grade. Um, in the fourth grade I was caught -- my dad and mom shipped me out to a farm in New Jersey.

EA: Okay.

BB: Outside of Mount Freedom, New Jersey.

EA: Mmm.

BB: Umm, Charlie (unclear). And um school, dad was out of a job. Um, trunk company umm was closed up. They sold the company to another one. And um so dad was out of a job and he was looking to buy a boat works out on the East coast, 3:00which he never did. This is a time in the 1937 World Fair out in New York and (unclear). And um, so they put me in school um in Mount Freedom. And they didnt feel that was right to place me on [unclear] that long so they moved me into um a boarding school um called Harvey. And that was right on the Hudson River. um, just a little south of Lake Plains.

EA: Okay.

BB: And its where I had my fourth - where I did the fourth grade. And, like all schools out east coast are pretty darn advanced. I had Latin, and I had French, 4:00and I had Algebra, all in the fourth grade.

EA: Wow.

BB: None of it did me any harm whatsoever. But after we got done with fourth grade I came back um home to Oshkosh in 1938 or so. And then I continued on at Training School. At that time they had um nine grades in there. It was sophomore year of highschool was ninth grade. And umm, I had four years of Latin all together. Umm, which didnt do me any harm at all. Umm, I can still pick up language pretty good. I married my umm my wife umm, well my second wife um, 5:00first wife died umm and the second wife was from Berlin, Germany.

EA: Okay.

BB: But I kinda start digressing in there. Do you want to know about the growing up, well umm, we spent a lot of time on the water going back and fourth to Sturgeon Bay. Umm, and during the Summer time we spent almost the whole time out on the water un in Green Bay and Michigan.

EA: Okay.

BB: Lake Michigan. Umm, and I learned how to fish, but good. In those days you catch perch umm, fifteen eighteen inches long.

EA: Oh yeah.

BB: Big suckers. And umm and so umm I (unclear) wed go back and fourth to 6:00Oshkosh, going to the umm the Fox River and all the locks, the seventeen locks in the Fox. And umm, I learned how to tie a bow (unclear) real quickly. Because umm, you have to tie up in the lock. umm, and so I was - and throw a rope over the Charlie Noble.

EA: Mmm.

BB: Up on top. Umm, so I learned how to umm, to do all that. We first had a boat that was a burned out hulk. And you know im skipping around here, but.

EA: Thats alright.

BB: Umm, anyway this will probably save you a bit of time asking questions. Umm, 7:00Dad was the general manager of Oshkosh Trunk Company. Umm, and that is where the new sports, I dont know what is it called Kolf?

EA: The umm Kold sports center yeah.

BB: Yeah, Kolf thats on the other side of umm, High Street. But that was the umm, a four story factory that covered almost a block. And it was a very interesting one because umm practically everybody in there was German. A German extraction. You know any Germans at all?

EA: Umm, I think I know a few yeah.

BB: Yeah, you know what the zimmerman is?

EA: Umm, Im not familiar

BB: Okay thats carpenter. Umm, but Oshkosh had a lot of zimmermans, German 8:00carpenters. They used to travel around with their own tools, strung over their shoulder. And every one of them umm knew how to make a joint. Umm, but anyway Oshkosh Trunk Company hired a lot of those old German carpenters. And so there products were really built. Have you been to the Oshkosh Museum?

EA: Umm, yeah I did go there once.

BB: Okay, as part of your-- are you an Anthro major by any chance?

EA: I am actually a Geology major.

BB: Hot dog! Good for you!

EA: I declared it this year.

BB: Well good choice. Thats what I am too.

EA: Im really loving it so far.

BB: Huh?

EA: Im really loving it so far.

BB: Yeah well you umm, they had some good people up there.

9:00

EA: Mmm.

BB: Yeah, and so umm, I think youll have a good - have you seen Bill Mode yet?

EA: Um, I ran into him once or twice and I talked to him when scheduling my classes, but thats about it.

BB: Okay. Well you should plan on going and seeing him.

EA: Okay.

BB: That umm, probably one for finishing up the thing. You probably should go there. I made the Bartlett award.

EA: Yeah I read about that in the article.

BB: Yeah, that article was a pretty good article as far as it went, but it got the (unclear) of our grant all screwed up.

EA: Hmm.

BB: And if you want to do some more research you go to the school of business, umm and probably look up the - I dont know if they had grants or not, but you 10:00can take a look at it. The grant was primarily to show the effects of sleet water and mash on dairy cattle.

EA: Okay.

BB: So, it was a farming grant more than anything, environmental using waste paper.

EA: Mmm.

BB: As the thing mentions. So, anyway, umm, where was I? Okay well, I dont know if that gave you enough background.

EA: Yeah that was really good. Umm, so youre father was the general manager of this Oshkosh Trunk and Luggage?

BB: Thats right.

EA: Around what time did he start that and what time did he end that?

BB: Well, it was right after the first world war. Began, umm, no I guess it was 11:00before that. Umm, Dad when he graduated from Columbia University in New York City, he was actually a classmate of Oscar Hammerstein believe it or not. And, they made umm, kind of sketchy things for Colombia in those days.

EA: Okay.

BB: Dad was a shipbuilder to France to make furnaces for heat treating shells.

EA: Okay.

BB: During the first world war. Umm, and when he came back to Oshkosh he could barely speak English. I mean he was totally immersed in French.

EA: In the French culture?

BB: Yeah in the French culture yeah. Umm, as a result all during the thirties, 12:00and when we were out at the farm umm, we had French speaking people coming through. And, you know I learned a lot of language through that encounter. Umm, so I guess youd say he was (unclear) started in the early 1920s with Oshkosh Trunk.

EA: Okay.

BB: And, have you seen these trunks?

EA: Umm, I dont think Ive specifically seen them, no.

BB: Okay, well part of your research you should go visit with Brad Larson. Umm, the Oshkosh Museum has several example of Oshkosh Trunks and youll see that they are heavier than luggage now.

13:00

EA: Mmm.

BB: Thats one of the things that lead to their demise because people were going by air. But when people were going by boat overseas on the boat where they took wardrobe trunks with them. They could put their entire wardrobe.

EA: Okay.

BB: And these things sit up about four foot tall and they opened with a hinge in the back and inside they had drawers and places to hang, umm, almost like a closet. And, I think umm, Brad has got an Oshkosh Trunk over there.

EA: Mmm.

BB: Umm, if not you could go and visit with my daughter who lives on Shawnee Lane on the lakeshore. She has a big one. And it might not be a bad idea for you 14:00to give her a holler anyway. She did her masters in social work at UWO.

EA: Okay.

BB: And shes got a lot of the memorabilia I gave her. Shes got a lot of old pictures also. Umm, so anyway getting back. When my grandfather Bartlett was still alive, he was the sales manager at Oshkosh Trunk was sold all over the world. Umm, particularly in Europe. So dad continually made trips back to Europe. Umm, where he used his language skills.

EA: Mmm.

BB: Umm, and they sold a lot of trunks. They had a retail outlet in New York 15:00City. Umm, they had them in London. They had them in Berlin, Paris, and so on. Umm, but anyway, the other thing that I hope you get to see Christina today. Theres a picture of the old Albee presidents house.

EA: Hmm.

BB: Thats where my dad grew up. Umm, and this is taken about in I think 1930s. Still has a concrete hitching post out in front, which is visible in the photograph. But that Albee house was a real knockout. It was a shame it had to 16:00be torn down. Because that was a Waters. The architect, he made a lot of buildings in the 1920s and right after the war. He designed a lot of buildings in Oshkosh. Umm, the Polk house is one of them. And I cant name them all off and look them up but Albee was one of his houses and even today it is gorgeous looking.

EA: Hmm.

BB: Umm, but that house, the property, went from Algoma Boulevard almost all the way back to Elmwood. Umm, it was a great, big, long property. It had a big 17:00tennis court in back. It went back there, that was when they had the street. Well I guess the street is halfway just now.

EA: Hmm.

BB: Umm, that street used to go from Algoma to Elmwood. It would go right through the library. It was vacated because of the library.

EA: Okay.

BB: Umm, so, I know in-- It was either in seventh or eighth grade umm, this is during the war, enrollment at Oshkosh, uh, at UW was zip. It went from seven eight hundred down to about two or three.

18:00

EA: Okay.

BB: Because all the men were taken into the service. And, at that time, they were putting naval aircraft cadets. Theyre putting them out in various colleges so they could get an education in mathematics and whatever. And, they took over the Training School as a dormitory. And, umm, the cadets were being trained at UW because a lot of the professors didnt have anything to do anyway. And so they for about, Id say almost two years, they trained naval cadets and as a result 19:00the school kids at training school had to move. We moved up to the top of Dempsy. And, we had a pretty darn good sized library. And, I moved that damn library.

EA: Into Dempsy?

BB: Into Dempsy yeah. Way up on the top floor of Dempsy.

EA: Oh wow.

BB: Yeah, and I moved it and recataloged it, and with very little help incidentally. I kind of had to learn it by the seat of my pants. The last year of schooling, was done on the top floor of Dempsy for me, the ninth grade. And, 20:00we had one teacher in particular sticks out in my mind, Louisa B. Scott. The Scott Hall was named after her.

EA: Oh Okay.

BB: She was one of my favorite teachers. She was a history teacher and a Latin teacher. And, umm, she was a cracker jack. She was from Missouri. And, very few kids had ever had any experience with people from south of the Mason Dickson Line.

EA: Hmm.

BB: So it was a real experience for most kids. But umm, lets see. So thats my experience during the war. I finished up high school in 1946.

21:00

EA: Okay.

BB: Just after the war had quit so I missed World War umm, two but I went to Madison between 46 and 48. And, it started out as pre-law. And, I had to take some science courses, and one of the courses I took was Geology.

EA: Okay.

BB: And I loved it. Umm, and I had a lot of teachers that talked-- Did you ever know Tom Laudon or Gene Laberge?

EA: I havent heard of them.

BB: No you havent. Well you probably will if you keep on going with geology. Umm, they were kind of the foundation. When I came back umm, well Im getting 22:00ahead of myself. Anyway, so, I went to Madison in my second semester of my sophomore year I decide I would find out if I really liked geology or not. I cut out of college and took a job with Shell Oil company out of Tulsa, Oklahoma. And, they sent me down there to umm, Alexandria, Louisiana to work on gravity meters. Do you know what a gravity meter is?

EA: Umm, Im not sure.

BB: Okay, well youll find out about gravity meters and seismographs are two exploration tools in the oil field. Gravity meters is a real kind of a survey type thing.

EA: Okay.

BB: And, its rather cheaper than seismographs. So they do that to determine if 23:00theres any possibility of stratigraphic cracks for oil.

EA: Okay.

BB: And, if there is, then they (unclear) seismographs and do a little bit more (unclear). And, so I was on a gravity meter party, and umm, this is getting towards the end of the 40s in 49. And, when Harry Truman took over from Franklin Rosevelt. And, he got into whats known as the police action, which is the Korean War.

EA: Oh okay.

BB: And I got nailed for the Korean War for fifteen months I was over in Korea. Umm, believe it or not (unclear) before I gotten that I was at Fort Ord, 24:00California for about 2 years. And I got pulled out of Fort Ord and went to Fort Louis and over to Japan, and then Korea. Umm, anyway, when I got out Dad had bought a farm in the beginning of the 1940s out on Jackson. And youll see the farm now up to Brussels or Luxemburg or any of those, yeah. Its known as the Winnebago County Land Fill, of all the damn things.

25:00

EA: Oh really?

BB: Yes. That was our farm. That was Bartlett Farm. And they came around and said well we want to test this for feasibility of a landfill. They were going to pay an awful good money to do this testing. And it turns out that there was a hell of a lot of glacial fill, umm between the surface and the subsurface. Almost 150 feet of the glacial clay, which mad it ideal for a landfill.

EA: Hmm.

BB: That how it got to be a landfill. Umm, but I had my own farm up on Brooks Road.

EA: Okay.

BB: And, umm, so when I came back from Korea I decide well I want to do some 26:00farming. And we had about almost 400 acres in that area. We bought another farm, umm, and so the damn highway 41 cut it in half. We bought the farm before the highway went through.

EA: Mmm.

BB: And, so, mom and dad, particularly mom-- My mother was way ahead of her time. Shes a Pollock. William Pollocks daughter. The overall manufacture, that where Pollock house came into being.

EA: Okay.

BB: Umm, and so mom when she grew up she went to the University of Chicago. And, 27:00she majored in integral calculus.

EA: Oh, wow.

BB: And at that time, umm well, something like calculus was unheard of for women doing calculus.

EA: Yeah.

BB: She did it and even after she was out of school, umm, just for fun, she would read (unclear) and function by Albert Einstein.

EA: Oh--

BB: So she was no slouch. Anyway, umm, she decided that were going to have a good dairy herd. And she went out and bought four bred heifers that were the 28:00foundation of our herd and by (unclear) she taught herself genetics. And umm, using calculus she figured out where and what she wanted to breed these cows to. And as a result during 1950s Bartlett Farm became kind of headquarters for Spainards, from Puerto Rico, Colombia, Peru, Mexico, Ecuador, Chile, etc.

EA: And was that because of the umm, how well known the farm was with the genetics related things?

BB: Yep. Because they came for basic cattle. Brood animals and we had them. And, 29:00umm, mom and dad taught themselves Spanish. Not only Spanish, verbal, but also how to read and write it.

EA: Okay.

BB: And, the (unclear) and all the other-- They really enjoyed coming to a farm that spoke and understood Spanish. And so practically everything that we raised went overseas.

EA: Okay.

BB: Not by boat, they flew them.

EA: They flew the cows there?

BB: They flew the cows and the calves because they were that important.

EA: Wow.

BB: So we organized quite a international organization for exporting cattle. 30:00And, as a result we had any number, all kinds of foreigners coming to the Bartlett Farm.

EA: Okay.

BB: And, umm, as a result we had a Colombiano boy stay with us and he spoke no English. Of course dad and mom spoke Spanish. He taught us Spanish and we taught him English.

EA: Okay.

BB: As a result I kind of, I picked up Colombiano Spanish.

EA: Hmm.

BB: You know I spoke -- I still can remember quite -- I dont say Im fluent in 31:00Spanish, but Im not too bad.

EA: Uh huh, thats important.

BB: Yeah. So, umm, anyway, where was I now?

EA: Talking about the umm, the shipping the cattle.

BB: Yeah shipping. We made crates for them to get on the airplanes and umm, we took them all to the air. And shipped them out of OHare. Umm, we even shipped cattle to Italy, and shipped cattle to Japan, so it was very international. Umm, my mother died and kind of a-- The wind went out of dads sails, so we gradually 32:00dispersed the cattle.

EA: Hmm.

BB: So when the damn county came along for turning the Bartlett Farm into a landfill. I guess we were ready to get out of it anyway. So, que sera sera.

EA: When you, umm, was that after you attended Oshkosh for Geology or before?

BB: Umm, it was before I had attended. When I came back I got married. And, I had a daughter, and umm, in the 60s, towards the end of the 60s I got restless. I said Jesus I want to go back and finish up college.

33:00

EA: Hmm.

BB: So, I went back and-- Geology at that time was on the top floor of Dempsy of all places. And so, I was in TSs first geophysics class on the top floor of Dempsy. And so, I had my geophysics and towards the end he was my advisor, TS. And, he said, what are you going to do with it? And I said, I dont know. He said, you better take a teaching certificate along with it so that you could teach Earth science. So thats what I did. And, so I ended up going back and finishing up geology courses. I had several real good ones. I was in Bill 34:00(unclear) algae, freshwater algae class for example. And I took a couple classes over in Clow.

EA: Okay.

BB: (unclear) Anthro courses, umm in-- Theres a guy by the name of Pat Houlihan that taught museum techniques. And we built a little museum on the top floor of Clow. That subsequently had a fire.

EA: Oh.

BB: And so that was the end of that. I took Anthro from a gal by the name of England. You can look up all these people that Im talking about a little later on if you want.

EA: Sure.

BB: And England was-- The Anthro department was all male. And chauvinistic as 35:00all hell. And so she finally quit. And for which I dont blame her. Anyway, so I graduated in 1971 with an Earth science teaching degree. Umm, and, I went on and I had to do student teaching up in Coonant High School, in Neenah.

EA: Okay.

BB: And, I did some-- These little punks they were-- This one in particular little snot, umm, thought he could get away with anything. Well finally, I got 36:00tired of his talking and cutting out, and I walked around in back, came up in the back of him and he was jabbering away and making a perfect ass of himself with the young ladies. And, umm, I asked him, I said, sorry I did not realize you had a hearing problem. And I grabbed him by the ear.

EA: Ohhh.

BB: I said, Ill tell you what were going to do. You just come right up with me and you sit in my chair up in the front. Okay, and everybody was dead silent and gasping and everything. And after class got done, my supervising teacher came up suppressing their laughter, holding hahahaha. Oh wish we could have done that 37:00with the little snot. And I said, well Id done it. He says, but you cant do that. So, and the more I taught, I said, what am I doing, umm, at 45 years old, struggling with these little beasts. So I really never did do very much of teaching. So its more of a joy than anything else.

EA: Hmm.

BB: I keep (unclear) now, old geologists. Umm, Murchison, Mary Anning, Sedgwick, Darwin, and so on. All those old boys they were in the 1800s, and they did a 38:00good job. And I had a chance to look into the history of geology. Thats a fascinating subject. Umm, so, okay, what have I missed?

EA: Umm, you covered a lot of stuff, a lot of my questions.

BB: I bet I did.

EA: So, umm, when you were at Oshkosh, I know the geology building now that I go to frequently is Harrington Hall.

BB: Yep.

EA: Was that around during that time?

BB: Yep, along with Dempsy was built about the same time as Dempsy I think.

EA: Okay. And so did you have umm, did you study a lot or like have meetings with professors a lot in those areas I assume?

BB: Yeah, well I went to Lake Tagash on a field trip, TS Lauden. And I had fellow by the name of Jim McKee. I went to Topsail Island on the Atlantic with 39:00him. So I did all of that while trying to farm. And so, you know I wore many hats in those days.

EA: Mmm.

BB: Umm, but it didnt hurt me a bit. And I still to this day, I have a wonderful time with geology. I remember (unclear) geology called Arizona (unclear). Umm, have you ever been to Arizona?

EA: Yes, I have.

BB: Okay, well you know that geology and Arizona are, go hand in hand.

EA: Yep.

BB: With the canyons, and the Mogollon rim, and Im right in the heart of it.

EA: Oh wow, yeah

BB: I get geology all the time. My house was built on Precambrian granite.

40:00

EA: Okay.

BB: 1.4 billion years old. So, I get geology every single day of the year. So, Im not (unclear). And I had my umm, collection, and you go next time that youre in Harrington, umm, take a look around Gene LaBerges was hard rock And umm, did a lot of work up in the UP. Have you gone to the UP at all for any trips?

EA: Ive been there a few times yeah.

BB: Yeah, up in the Keweenaw. The copper-- Thats great country for umm, copper. 41:00Umm, theres a, in Houghton, theres a shop run by Ken Flood. Called the Keweenaw gift shop. If you go up that way stop in and see him. Hes got more stuff than Carter has pills. So um, anyway, okay what else do you need to know?

EA: Umm, so, During your time on campus, umm, when you attended Oshkosh, do you, were there any significant events going on during that time that you can recall?

BB: Umm--

EA: It can be anything from like social issues to political, or anything like that.

BB: God almighty I didnt have time for that sort of thing. You know I barely had 42:00time for going to school.

EA: Hmm.

BB: When I came back, got out of it. I had to go farming. So I was farming, and going to school at the same time.

EA: Oh, okay.

BB: I didnt have much time. But, umm, later one, my first wife died. I got married again in 1995. And I married a woman umm, who was born in (unclear) over in Germany.

EA: Okay.

BB: And she was in a Skazi (spelling) concentration camp twice. She and I umm, were kind of roamed all over the countryside. Went to Niagara Falls twice and Yellowstone, and umm, of course the canyon. Umm, I went back to the canyon four 43:00times. Umm, and we had--Unfortunately she died this December.

EA: Oh, Im sorry to hear that.

BB: Well, she wasnt liking life very much anyway. Shes in a better place. So, anyway, okay what else? What have I missed?

EA: So um, in this article about you I umm, theres some stuff about biomassic boilers. Do you think you could elaborate a little bit on that for me?

BB: Yes yes, right before I got married this last time I was running an ethanol plant out in Eureka. You familiar with the process of ethanol?

EA: Umm, not too much.

44:00

BB: Not too much, okay. Well ethanol-- Anything that has starch, umm can make ethanol. Particularly potatoes, corn, umm, sugarcane can make ethanol. Anyway, umm, ethanol requires a source of heat because you have to heat up the slurry in order to get the sacrinization going.

EA: Okay.

BB: And, umm, so we teamed up with a fellow down in Waukesha that had this biomass boiler. Biomass means that it can burn anything. And it did. And, not only anything, but when it would burn it, it burned it without pollution.

45:00

EA: Ohh okay.

BB: And we found that lo and behold the Kimberly Clarks, and the Marathons, and all that up in the Fox River valley had a lot of waste products. Umm, waste product was paper, and a lot of the paper was wax coated. And, where to get rid of it? Okay, umm, so other people were doing it too. They found that they could handle it better by pelletizing it.

EA: Okay.

BB: And so we were able to buy wasted pelletized paper for somewhere around 25 dollars a ton. Which is pretty damn cheap.

EA: That is pretty cheap.

BB: Yep, and when it burned, the paper pellets had the same BTU as andesite 46:00coal, which is about 12,000 BTU per pound.

EA: Okay.

BB: And so, it handles easily. (unclear). This biomass boiler heated up water just perfectly for the first part of the process. The only problem was that it didnt heat enough to make steam, which you needed for the distillation column.

EA: Hmm.

BB: But the big umm, pieces of it was at the time in the 90s umm, corn on the farm was somewhere around a dollar and thirty and a dollar fifty a bushel.

EA: Hmm.

BB: You couldnt hardly give it away. Now, when the corn kernel has a lot of CO2 47:00in it. And CO2 has no nutrient value. So in the ethanol process CO2 is driven off, umm, into the air, and the corn has about an 8% protein value. And, when it is digested in the sacrinization process, it concentrates the protein about three times. So 8% corn turns out to be 21 24% protein. And, more than that, you 48:00know cows are four stomached animals.

EA: Mmhmm yeah

BB: Okay, so when the cow ingests the corn, umm, it goes into the first stomach and its predigested so the cow does not have to regurgitate it and chew its cud with this particular product.

EA: Okay.

BB: This corn protein, digestible protein, goes right down into the second stomach and goes to work. So umm, this corn mash is an extremely valuable product. And, more distinctly umm, its wet. And grain in the cattle has to be liquefied in order to get nutrients out of it. So this is preliquefied. So its a 49:00double plus. Umm, our idea, this mash is so digestible, umm, and so easily assimilated that in dairy cattle the big thing is butter fat.

EA: Yeah.

BB: And butter fat and fluid production. Well, both of those go up with the feeding of the mash to the cattle. Umm, and that was the trust of our grant. It is to empirically show how this stuff increased the umm, the value to the cow. Umm, theres a thing called value adding in the economics of agriculture.

50:00

EA: Mmhmm.

BB: And that is essentially what we are doing to corn. The corn which would normally be at a dollar and fifty cents a bushel, then automatically almost jumps to four or five dollars a bushel in value to the farmer. And the big thing is the ethanol plant was put right up on the farm. Right next to the cows. And theres a second spiff that comes of it. Umm, after the distillation you have whats known as sweet water left over.

EA: Mmhmm.

BB: And as the name implies, its sweet. It means that theres a lot of sucrose left in this liquid. And the cows think that this is great stuff. Its nice and 51:00sweet. Umm, so you got two products, so called waste products from the ethanol process that can go into the cows. [unclear] And a big factory situation where you have to take these waste products and truck them to the cattle. Our thesis was why not put the plant right up on the farm to start with. So, and that didnt come out in this article. And that was the trust of our grant. Even though the fact that we used the paper pellets as a source of heat, which could have been a separate grant in itself. So we had a double whammy going.

52:00

EA: Thats really interesting. I knew that about corn, but i didnt know that the whole adding value part.

BB: The value adding?

EA: Yeah

BB: Well, thats economics, you know farmers you coming from a farmer.

EA: Mmhmm.

BB: You know theres not a lot of (unclear) to attract young people to the farm. And because you cant really make a living on it.

EA: True.

BB: Umm, the process of value adding to a product is in other words, the farmer sells wholesale and buys retail.

EA: Mmhmm.

BB: And so why not sell retail? It cut out the middleman. Thats the whole crux 53:00of value adding. The old Chinese had that figured out 6000 years ago.

EA: Yeah.

BB: They used tier farming where they had the chickens way up on the top, and they ran the barn water all the way down to the low end, which was the pond where the carp were fed. And, the carp just eat up the affluent from the cows, and the pigs, and the chickens, and so on. So, the effect that they were borrowing umm, a little of the things that the Chinese were doing.

EA: Yeah, thats really interesting.

BB: Yeah, our ancestors when they came over here, they took the milk and they had their own cheese factories. And they made butter, and they had their routes 54:00where they sold cheese and butter. And, they were doing value adding. And, that process is-- really had kind of been lost in agriculture.

EA: Mmhmm, yeah.

BB: And you know it just is-- We really didnt have the time to take care of it. Umm, corn only works with umm, with rumens. Umm, the single stomached animals like the pig.

EA: Mmhmm.

BB: Umm, it doesnt work with them. Umm, they like it but its not as effective as in a rumen.

EA: Okay, yeah that makes sense. Another question I had about the article is, I know you talked a little bit about the Bartlett award. If you could elaborate on 55:00like the, how that came about.

BB: Well, It kind of grew. Were talking about attracting umm, young people to geology. Thats how it kind of started. Gene LaBerge and I talked it over. Umm, you got to do a little research on him. Umm, he was a fantastic guy. Umm, and in fact he and I took umm, took geology from the same people down in Madison when I first started out. So, we kind of went back more than the normal professor and students.

EA: Mmhmm.

BB: But umm, so I just kind of felt that I ought to make an award. And, I 56:00recently shipped Bill Mode a piece of copper. Umm, you know float copper. Umm, Labar made that for me. And umm, gave it to me. Oh, I dont know when it was, but in the early 2000s. And I though it would be fitting to put it in the cabinet at Harrington Hall.

EA: Okay.

BB: So thats where it is now. So thats one of the reasons--

EA: And you said thats a piece of copper, correct?

BB: Yep.

EA: I think Ive actually seen that before when I had been in there.

BB: Well, I just shipped it down so--

EA: Oh okay, It must have been something else then.

BB: Well, theres a lot of that float copper around. Umm, but this is mounted on 57:00a piece of wood.

EA: Okay.

BB: And I dont whether Bill is got it in one of the cabinets going up and down into Harrington or not. Umm, but anyway, so what else?

EA: Umm, so being a geology graduate from Oshkosh, what is your favorite or most significant part of your studies that you like the most.

BB: Hmm, well I got to think about that. Umm, I guess collecting.

EA: Collecting?

BB: Yeah, collecting and um, talking to young people and getting them interested 58:00in geology.

EA: Mmhmm.

BB: Umm, Ill give you an example about that. Umm, I live in a community called umm, its got independent living and assisted living. And, believe it or not its called La Fuente. Umm, from your Spanish do you what that means?

EA: Umm, I feel like Ive heard of it.

BB: Ill tell you. It means the spring, or the fountains.

EA: Okay, yeah.

BB: And, theres a lot of stuff that comes out of the granite. There are springs and these things run right past my window. So I am really very comfortable here. And, the second thing is umm, I got roped into a reading program. Its a great big Lutheran academy out here that goes from K through eight. And, they got a 59:00preschool program umm, there were people from La Fuentes going there and read to these preschoolers. Well Ive been roped into it talking to three year olds. And, you know I really love it. You can tell the kids the moon is made out of green cheese and they believe it. But umm, I love the idea of show and tell. I got a lot of good mineral samples. Ive always loved collecting. And umm, in Arizona 60:00during January they have two big shows. One is in quartzite and one is in Tucson. And umm, so thats one of the reasons umm, Alfie and I moved out here, so we would be able to go to the gem shows, gem and mineral shows without having to do a lot of traveling. And, which we did. And, Ive got a big umm, couple of big petrified woods up on the wall, umm from Oregon and Ive got a nice big Brazilian amethyst geode. And, I dont know, lots of different things. So thats, I guess I dont know what you can call that. Umm, what I got out of geology.

61:00

EA: Yeah I know I-- Oh, go ahead.

BB: Yeah umm, so how far have you gone umm, in geology. Have you had both umm, historical and physical?

EA: Umm, I yeah. Im going to be finishing that this year and next year Ill be taking my field course along with sedimentology and mineralogy.

BB: Yeah mineralogy, you havent had mineralogy yet. Umm, see I actually had mineralogy twice.

EA: Oh.

BB: Once I had it down in UW Madison with Emmons and the second time I had it with Gene LaBerge. So, and I got pretty good rounding in mineralogy. And umm, theres a fellow up here in Appleton by the name of John Barlow. And he had a 62:00fantastic collecting of minerals. Umm, and he made a big book on it. Umm, if you could get ahold of that you would be fascinated. His specialty was umm, Keweenaw minerals and gold and silver samples and hes got a (unclear) of that. I think the Mode has got several copies of his book.

EA: Okay.

BB: See if you can get ahold of that.

EA: Ill have to check that out yeah.

BB: Yeah, so does that answer your question? I dont know whether it did exactly.

EA: Umm, yeah actually it did. That was really interesting.

BB: Yep, but you know I enjoyed the field-- I went up to Lake Tagish with umm, Tom Laudon. Thats up on the umm, Canadian Alaskan border.

63:00

EA: Okay.

BB: That was my field trip, my big field trip. Umm, a month and half. And umm, then the other ones were, well a course over Baraboo and down in Topsail Island, down in the Carolinas. And, so I dont know but the one up in Lake Tagish is the biggie. I think they go to four corners. Umm, I dont know-- Utah, they spend a lot of time in Utah on field trips.

EA: Mmhmm yeah. I know the umm, the one that Ill be able to go on next year is actually in Hawaii, studying volcanos.

BB: Ah hah, you betcha. Thats a cool place.

EA: Im excited to do that. Ive never been to Hawaii before.

BB: Ahh well youll like it. Its big stuff. You going to go to Maui or where? 64:00Which island?

EA: Umm, I think its Maui. I cant be positive though, I want to say its Maui.

BB: Yeah, thats probably the best. Umm, going up on top of Mount Haleakala. Umm, which I thing youll go anyway because thats umm, 13,000 feet up.

EA: Oh, wow.

BB: Umm, gorgeous view up there. Theres biotic stuff that nowhere else in the world will show up. Yeah, so anyway, well thats good. What else?

EA: So yeah, my last question for you is umm, having your degree in geology, it seems like thats brought a lot of travel into your life. Umm, could you elaborate on some of your favorite places that this degree has brought you?

65:00

BB: Well, lets see, now how to answer that. Actually umm, my degree never really took me to these places, but when got to these places, the degree really enriched what I was doing.

EA: Oh, okay.

BB: For example, when Harry Truman-- I went to Fort Ord on Monterey Bay. Umm, and Have you been to California at all?

EA: Umm, no I have not.

BB: Okay well, California is a very very interesting place. Umm, lots and lots and lots of geology. Anyway, Fort Ord is right smack dab in all of the 66:00interesting places in California as far as Im concerned. Umm, so anytime I got off, I poked around geologically. Umm, and it just enriched my perspective on geology. So umm, any travel I did, it was enriched by geology.

EA: Okay.

BB: And, thats true in my later life when Alfie and I moved out to Arizona. We first went to a little place called Ashford. And Ashford is the limestone capital of the world. That is the big limestone, sandy limestone (unclear) 67:00people walk on.

EA: Mmhm.

BB: Umm, they had something like 16 or 18 different quarries just for limestone. And, while we were there the US government came out and said umm, no more illegal immigrants. You got to have a green card. So, probably 95 percent of the workers in the quarries all were undocumented.

EA: Okay.

BB: And so Ashford went from about 2000 population down to about 350 almost overnight.

EA: Oh wow.

BB: And because the Chicanos took off. And its unfortunate.

EA: Mmhm.

BB: Umm, but thats the way it goes. Umm, the immigration policies of this 68:00country stink. You know they havent really taken-- And theres pros and cons on both sided of that coin.

EA: Yeah.

BB: When we finally came down here to the Prescott area, we were over in Prescott Valley. Umm, our next door neighbor, they were from the Yucatan out of Mexico.

EA: Mmhmm.

BB: And, she came from Media, which is right in the heart of the Yucatan. And umm, her husband was born in Wenesco, Illinois. So he was an American citizen. But her two sons were born in Mexico, and the younger son is having a hell of a 69:00time because he cant get himself a green card because he was born in Mexico. Hes got all the paperwork and so the immigration thing has been giving him a hard time. The older boy, he joined the National Guard. And, serving in the National Guard he can get his citizenship from that.

EA: Oh okay.

BB: But, umm, anyway, Ive learned (unclear) from the geology experiences. You know I appreciate the things that I see one heck of a lot more. Arizona is a real interesting state because its part of the Colorado Plateau.

EA: Mmhm.

BB: And there are three biological, or not biological but umm, stratigraphic 70:00sections of Arizona. Theres the Colorado Plateau, theres the Basin and Range, and then theres the Sonoran Desert. And were kind of at the umm, were right at the beginning of the Basin and Range umm, end of the plateau. Umm and, theres something called the Mogollon Rim, which is the end of the Colorado Plateau. And that ends probably about 25 to 50 miles from us. And umm, its an escarpment a great deal like the Niagara Escarpment, only much more pronounces. It stretches 71:00all the way from umm, New Mexico Border all up around umm, and it ends kind of in the Grand Canyon.

EA: Mmhm.

BB: So thats fascinating to me. And umm, you know the history of the canyon dont you? The plateau has pushed up umm, and as its been pushing up through the eons, the Colorado River has eroded the canyon.

EA: Mhm yeah. Going to the canyon was a really great experience for me.

BB: Oh, youve been to the canyon?

EA: Yep, Ive been-- The canyon Ive been there twice and then umm, another really cool place in Arizona that I really liked was Sedona.

BB: Oh yeah.

EA: With umm, all the red rocks yeah.

72:00

BB: Yeah, were only about 25 to 30 miles from Sedona.

EA: Okay.

BB: So we know it very well. Yeah and thats umm, thats all Paleozoic stuff.

EA: Mmhm.

BB: But umm, where we are, were in the umm, Precambrian.

EA: Oh really? We just finished in my geology class, we just finished the Precambrian.

BB: Yeah well, and stromatolites, we dont have any stromatolites but its terribly granitic. All kind of rotten granite. Everything is all the feldspars peeking out so. Okay, anything else?

73:00

EA: Umm, I think I covered it all. So for this project would you like me to send you a copy of the interview, or the finished product that we come up with and present at the end? Would you be interested in that?

BB: I would love it.

EA: Okay yeah, Ill make sure to get that over to you once we finish later on.

BB: Okay umm, couple things, my granddaughter is one of the librarians down at Marquette and shes also very interested in history.

EA: Mmhm.

BB: So Im going to get her a copy of it.

EA: Okay, yeah sure.

BB: Umm, and the second thing is that back in the 1850s, you know Arizona and 74:00New Mexico became states in 1912. So there were one of the religious states to get into the union. But in 1850, Arizona and New Mexico were territories. And, 1852 or 3 I think, my great great uncle was the second territorial governor of Arizona and New Mexico.

EA: Oh wow.

BB: His name was Merryweather. And so, I feel quite at home with it. And he was based out of Santa Fe. So Santa Fe is a real interesting place too. Are you 75:00going to keep up with your Spanish?

EA: Umm, I think so yeah. I mean Ive taken it since kindergarten, so I think thats around 12 years that I have had to take it.

BB: Well good!

EA: Yeah, so I think-- I havent taken it in college yet, but Im thinking about taking one.

BB: Well, if you get a chance go to Mexico or go to some Spanish speaking place, because thats where youll really learn Spanish.

EA: Yeah, Ive been to Cozumel, Mexico, and that was a great experience.

BB: Cozumel, yeah? Yep, thats on the Yucatan.

EA: Yep.

BB: Yeah, okay well you almost have to live in it.

EA: Yeah.

BB: Really thats what happened to us when we moved to Prescott Valley, because we had this family right next door to us. (unclear) didnt speak any English, and 76:00my wife and I kind of taught her English. And of course she-- We met a lot of Spanish speaking people, and we were able to do a lot of linguistic things with her.

EA: Mmhm.

BB: And incidentally I learned German too.

EA: Okay.

BB: So, thats one of the (unclear) Okay, umm, Egan anything else you can think of to fill in?

EA: I dont think so. I just want to thank you for taking some time out and doing an interview with me.

BB: Thats alright. I love to talk anyway.

EA: And Ill make sure to get the copy of this sent over to you.

77:00

BB: Okay, well do get ahold of Christine.

EA: Okay yeah.

BB: And do get ahold of Bill Mode.

EA: Yeah Ill definitely do that.

BB: Definitely, you being a geologist you should do that anyway. So okay, well thank you very much for your kindness and umm, well talk again.

EA: Yes, thank you have a nice day.

BB: Okay thank you, bye.

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