Interview with Karen Sykes, 04/24/2018

UW Oshkosh Campus Stories
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EP: Could you please state your name and today's date and time for me please?

KS: My name is Karen Skyes and today is April 23rd, 2018 and the time is 12:20pm.

EP: Okay, thank you. Could you tell a little bit about where you grew up and what the community was like?

KS: Yes, I grew up on a dairy farm. My dad owned a dairy farm and it was.. Oh near Poy Sippi near Weyauwega--and we had a lot of neighbors, everyone was farmers and most of us belonged to Christ Evangelical Lutheran Church in West Bloomfield. And that was pretty much our social life.. Getting together for activities at the church. Um, being a dairy farmer my dad didn't- you know we 00:01:00didn't have a lot of spare time. I have a sister and two brothers and we all had to pitch in and help.

EP: How was that like on the farm?

KS: It was a lot of hard work. Um, I drove the tracker. My says I was five year old when I started but it was for harvesting the hay. You know first we had a hay loader and then we had a bayler. And also my job when I came home from school everyday and I rode my bicycle to school in the spring and fall and in winter--,um, neighbors carpooled and we went in a car but when I got home from school my job was to feed the chickens and gather the eggs. And till this day I 00:02:00hate chicken.

EP: Um.. How-how did your family look upon obtaining a high education as far as going to college?

KS: You know neither of my parents had a high school education. Um, my father didn't think that girls needed to go to college but my mom was my champion and she wanted me to go to college to be a teacher because that's what she had wanted to be but circumstances got in the way of her even being able to go to high school. --So, through, um, my parents helping my monitor a way, I had a small scholarship and I had different jobs all through college and so I didn't 00:03:00have to get any loans or anything. Um, I was able to pay in those three ways.

EP: what were some values or lessons that you learned growing up throughout you- with your family for things that you learned in your community?

KS: Well as I say we learned how to work hard. We didn't have a lot of money because my grandfather who had owned the farm before my father bought it almost lost the farm in the depression. I was born in 1941, so it was just coming out of the depression. So, we didn't have a lot material things. Um, I had a lot of homemade clothes or hand-me-down clothes, but we always had plenty of food because my mom had a big garden-- and you know, we had animals that we could 00:04:00butcher and eat but we always felt very loved and valued by our parents and our grandparents. Um, we had a large extended family in the area aunts and uncles and cousins. So, it was a nice childhood growing up. Um--.. and--I guess that is a value that I learned that love really matters, you know, for kids.

EP: Um.. so as a child want schools did you attend--. Like elementary schools or middle schools?

KS: I attended Christ Evangelical Lutheran Day school. When I started in the first grade it was just one room. I was the only one in the first grade. There 00:05:00were know other first graders. Um, my teacher was a man-- his name was Mr. Wacker and I was terrified of him. I hated school. My parents would take me in the morning and I would beg everyday not to have to go because know one wanted to play with me. I was, you know, that only first grader-- and- so. By Christmas I had finished all my books and I told my mom I didn't need to go anymore because I was done but they didn't buy that idea. Um, in the second grade that school was divided into two rooms and another girl came and was the second grade and I had a lady teacher. And then I started loving school and eventually became a teacher so- and there was no middle school. You know, the first four grades 00:06:00were in one room and grades five through eight were in the other room. And so, I went from that school to high school and I went to Fox valley lutheran high school Appleton. I stayed there during the week different families boarded girls and so-- my sophomore year I stayed with two other girls in a house. And then my junior and senior years I moved to a different house were there were six of us. It was a pleasant time.

EP: In high school were you also surrounded by people who wanted to do to college for did they have other plans?

KS: I think pretty much everyone was hoping to go to college.

EP: Okay. When applying for colleges, do you remember any other schools that you 00:07:00applied for besides UW-Oshkosh?

KS: No, I didn't apply for any other one.

EP: Why was that?

KS: Because I had gotten a small scholarship and it was, you know, convenient I could live in the dorm during the week and then on weekend I usually went home. So, the teaching program which is what I was interested in so,-- that pretty much where I went.

EP: Had you always wanted to go to college, um growing up or was it either like, um, a deciding decision like you only had college for to work or did you always want to go to college?

KS: Well you know in my day the choices for women where every different from 00:08:00what women can do today. And mostly you could either be a nurse, a teacher, or a secretary. Or you know, I suppose work in an office somewhere, in a factory. But no, um, my mom had always as I say promoted college and-- she.. And I thought I would be a good teacher because when I was even in elementary school I was kind of a help to some of the other kids and it appealed to me to do that. So I think I pretty much always want to go to college.

EP: Okay. Um, what were your first impressions of the university or just Oshkosh when you first came to the school?

KS: Well you know I had been in the town of Oshkosh before it was like it was 00:09:00totally strange. Um, my high school was small my graduating class was fifty-nine kids. So of course you know, there are a lot more people in college and much larger classes. But um, I lived in the dorm Webster Hall. I don't even know if it's still there for not.

EP: Yes it's still there.

KS: But um, I had a roommate and you know we were having orientation and i think Dempsey Hall and Harrington Hall where the two main building there our classes were. I think I figured it our okay and I made friends and i think it was pretty easy transition for me.

EP: Do you remember any of the classes that you had during your freshman year?


KS: Ohh, that a long time ago. Um--

EP: Or any of like the general classes that you took?

KS: Yeah, I remember in Harrington Hall that was a Science- and I doubt that's there anymore because it was so old already when I went there but I think I had Biology there and-. And then in Dempsey Hall since I was going to be a teacher I suppose I started out with classes in education. I remember children's literature class I really enjoyed.

EP: Do you remember any of the professors that you had during your freshman year?

KS: You know I was just looking through my yearbooks beca- in anticipation of 00:11:00this call. And I really don't- I don't remember them.

EP: Do you remember any of your professors throughout any of your years at UWO or no?

KS: I can't say that I do.

EP: Okay. What was your major when you attended UWO?

KS: Elementary Education

EP: What persuaded you to make that decision into that major?

KS: Well as I mentioned earlier when I was in elementary school I was kind of was the teacher's helper for a while and I-- as I mentioned to it was teacher, nurse or secretary in my day so I didn't want to be a nurse because I didn't like-- blood and all that and since I went to college not work in an office that 00:12:00was kind of my choice that was left. But-but I liked it, you know. I taught for a few years and I liked it but then my life when in a different directions so.

EP: In the beginning how did you manage have a social life and school as a freshman?

KS: Well living in the dorms I think we had some social activity within the dorms-- There was the student union and they would bring in different groups. I don't know if these groups came in when I was a freshman or later or maybe throughout my college years and you probably don't recognize any of these name but I wrote down some of the more famous entertainment that passed through 00:13:00campus: The Chad Mitchell Trio, The Smothers Brothers. Know any of those? The new Christy Minstrels, Peter Boundmary.

EP: No, I'm not familiar with any of those.

KS: I'm sure you're not. And you could say some names that I have no idea because my granddaughters have groups that I no idea who they are. We also have movies in Sunday nights in one of the Buildings, i think they cost a quarter.

EP: That's really cool.

KS: So, those are some social things I did as a freshman later on a I joined a sorority and so my social life expanded then.

EP: Did you do home often when you first went off to college?


KS: I did, I went home nearly every weekend.

EP: Why was that?

KS: I suppose that there was nothing wanted or had to do at school and my freshman year I didn't really care for my for my roommate and I just left of weekends.

EP: So did you have a car on campus during this time like, how did you commute back and forth to home on the weekends?

KS: The first year or two I rode with, um, some people that lived in our neighborhood that worked in Oshkosh. And so I would get a ride on Fridays when they finished work and then back on Monday morning when they came to work. But 00:15:00later I did have a car probably my junior year I got a car. But then when I got my car- not because of the car- but you know, the longer I was going there more involved I got in things. And then I didn't do home every-every weekend.

EP: Um, so what was the dorm life like when you attended?

KS: Well, there were no boys in the dorms. Um, we had like I don't know what they were called-- monitors or counselors or something but when you went somewhere you had to sign out and you had a- we had a curfew. You know, we had to back in at a certain time and we had to sign in.

EP: Do you remember what time that was?

KS: Probably 10:30pm during the week and probably midnight on the weekends. I 00:16:00still have some of my sign out cards that make me chuckle because I know how different it is now.

EP: Very very different.

KS: Yeah. We were really you know I don't know what the word is.. But yeah it was strict. If you didn't get in when you were supposed to you got in trouble.

EP: Was it easy making friends on campus and in the dorms?

KS: Yeah, I would say it was pretty easy for me.

EP: What are some memories that you have from you freshman year with your friends- from being around campus?

KS: -- Well, like I say there was the student union which we would go there 00:17:00sometimes in the evening and you- I think you ate there. I had a meal card or something and I ate there. But then you could go there and watch TV and there was a snack bar and have you know coke and um-- that was one thing we did. In the winter um, for example they have an ice carving- i don't know what they called it. I don't know if you still have that.

EP: Yes, we do.

KS: you know our dorm had entries in different contests and so on like that so we joined into help out with those kinds of competitions and things. And then 00:18:00within the dorms, there was a common room and you could go there and chat or get help with a math problem if you couldn't figure it out. It was pretty compatible overall I would say.

EP: Did you stay in touch with any of your friends after college or are you currently still friends with them now?

KS: I have a couple that I am still friends with. --..They are both sorority sisters. Um, and the one I saw just two summers ago. Um. I went back to Wisconsin and she lives- and her husband in Door County and we met for dinner and we keep in touch throughout the years, our birthdays are really close to 00:19:00each other. So, we exchange birthday cards and Christmas cards. And the other one, um, was really my best friend in college. She and her husband live in Arkansas and I don't know, several ear we had to go back to Missouri for a wedding of my nephew. So, we arranged to get together with Jane and her husband -- you know we exchange Christmas cards too. And when get together, you know how that is. It's like we never been apart, you pick up where you left off.

EP: Do you remember how much the tuition was when you attended?

KS: No I don't. I think it was in single digits though, I don't think it was as 00:20:00much as $10,000.

EP: Was it easy think it was easy to get comfortable at the university after your first year or how long did it take you to get comfortable in UW-Oshkosh?

KS: Oh, I think I was comfortable soon. My second year, I didn't live in the dorm. I lived in a house off campus with some other gals. But there we still had the house mother and the signing in and out and so on. Um, but it was a little more independent. As I mentioned my junior and senior year i lived in the sorority house.

EP: um, did you- were you on any sports teams in college or any intramural sports?

KS: I was not. I was just as- as I was looking through my year books I noticed 00:21:00there are hardly any women's sports. I don't know if you have access to any of these yearbooks- I have 61' 62' and 63'. But if you do, you might find it interesting there are- you know I think there was a swim team. There was no women's basketball, softball, nothing like that.

EP: That is very interesting.

KS: Yeah, there was no title nine.

EP: How um,- what was it like being apart on the women's governing board?

KS: It was great. Um, the women who was in charge of it, Miss. Nelson. I still remember her very fondly. She wasn't a teacher on mine or anything but she and I got along really, really well. And I guess, my dad really wanted me to be a boy 00:22:00'cause I was my parent's first child and he was hoping to have more of a helper on the farm. SO I don't know I always, guess I felt more of a leader. Being on the governing board were we came up with programs for women and you know I wanted women to have a fair deal and I thought was one way I try to promote that.

EP: What are some experiences that you had on the women's governing board that help you throughout your college years or even after that?


KS: We had various, I don't know, politicians--. speakers come in. I think I was at some point maybe junior, senior year something, I was the vice president of the women's association. And so, I was the one who was would meet- well first of all Miss. Nelson and I arranged for these speaker, we contacted them to see if they would come and speak to us. And then I was the one who met them when they got to campus and introduced them. And so, that was very interesting and.. I learned from them as their speeches and so on. Very occasionally, we would have 00:24:00to, um, take up a disciplinary matter--of a woman who had- and I don't remember what they may have done anymore but they came before.. Us and we had to decide what kind of justice they should have.

EP: What was is like being on the students newspaper staff?

KS:  Oh, my boyfriend was editor so it was fine. Um, I probably did grunt work, which was fine. Probably coalitied the newspapers or I wasn't you know, a 00:25:00reporter or anything like that.

EP: What made you join the student newspaper staff?

KS: I just told you, the boyfriend.

EP: Do you remember any social issues or political issues taking place on campus at the time of your attendance?

KS: You know, We did have a demonstration at one point but I can't remember what it was about. I can't- it was too early to about the Vietnam War. So it wasn't about that. In the very back of my mind I'm thinking it might have been a racial incident but I can't say if that's for sure but we did march and had signs and 00:26:00not everyone participated of course.

EP: What was it like being on the homecoming court?

KS: It was great. My sorority of them was campaign manager. And she made all of everyone in the sorority work hard. You must remember these were before the days of any kind of internet, or computers. We used manual or electric typewriters. We cut and pasted- we used monogram machines but um, it was very fun. And to be chosen there was the queen and then the other two of us- 00:27:00I think there were six or seven candidates so, I was happy for my sorority- to represent them on the court. It was a highlight of my college years probably. This friend of mine, the one I told that I saw a couple summers ago, she was reminiscing about how hard they all had to work was I was running for Homecoming Queen. Still all those years later.

EP: What was it like being in a sorority?

KS: It was fun.

EP: How was the process?

KS: Pardon me?

EP: What was the process like?

KS: You mean to be asked to join?

EP: Yes.

KS: Well probably still have rush, do you? So, I don't know think there were six 00:28:00or seven sororities at the time that I went through rush. And you know, what they did. They invited you to their house or there meeting and they got to know you little and they decided of the wanted you to be a part of their sorority. So I actually got invited to all of the sororities on campus but I chose that one chose because I just liked the people. I felt that weren't- for one thing they weren't phony. Um, and I already had a couple who belonged to that sorority. Then we had you know, pledge week or something. I still have my booklet that I 00:29:00had to carry round and whatever- my- the upper class sorority sisters told us to do we had to do. I still have my beanie that I had to wear. I don't know do they still do that?

EP: I'm not sure on that.

KS: okay.  It was silly but fun. We did service projects too. Which- and. We didn't live on sorority row. We had a house on campus that a beautiful older home, I don't know how It remained on campus. I know it's not there anymore. But 00:30:00it had 3 story's. It had a lovely staircase coming down, I think of the third floor there was room for 5 girl's maybe. I was up of the 3rd floor and we were our special little special group up there. Um, we had windows that looked out to- I think it was Algoma. Was that the-the street?

EP: Yes.

KS: anyway, we would sit up in our windows where people couldn't really see us and we would whistle at the boy and they had no idea where it was coming from. We, you know, took turn cooking the meals. So, i think there two or three of us 00:31:00at a time and so you got to do every few months. But we had to plan the food go shopping that clean up. So-- and we still had out house mother and we still had to sign and sign out.

EP: What are some other things you did for fun in and around campus?

KS: Well I don't know I say we went to different events that came through campus and that was a lot of fun. And some these groups were pretty popular throughout the country and so to have them some to Oshkosh was a big 00:32:00deal. Um, I had a boyfriend eventually we went out of dates and movies-- picnics and things like that. Let's see what else did I do for fun? I didn't really go into town all that much. You know into Oshkosh. That wasn't fun but um I had different jobs, was i mentioned, I was in college. One of my jobs was that I- and the oh probably started in September and it went through Christmas and its- I think it's still there a mail order house called Miles Kimball in Oshkosh. They have a catalog that they send out. So this particular year they were 00:33:00selling through there catalog hand painted Christmas cards. Um, my roommate and I- I guess she was a sorority sister by then got a job there and we would go to work about 5:00 or 5:30 in the afternoon. And then we would work until maybe 10:30 at night. And w worked on these hand painted Christmas Cards and it-it's not what it might seem. There were probably five of us and we sat in a circle and the seen on the Christmas Card- which I still have one- was a little boy whose back was toward you and he was looking at a manger with the baby Jesus on it. So my job was hour after hour to paint the little boy's coat blue. Then you 00:34:00pass that card to the next persona they would paint the straw and so on. So that was pretty boring but we chatted with each other and that's one way I earned money for college?

EP: What were some of the other jobs you had on campus-well during college?

KS: Yeah, the other two were on campus actually. One was um, at the I don't know what it was called, but the training school were people who where going to be teacher- they had a school on campus for little children, you know. I think it was called Campus school or Campus training school. Anyway I worked in a 00:35:00cafeteria there for awhile. I would- you know, as kids-children came through the line I would dish out food, then I would wash off the tables and whatever. And another job I had I was working the student union bookstore as a cashier.

EP: Did you like that job?

KS: I liked the cashier job because I got to see you know a lot of people passing through. I didn't like the cafeteria job all that much.

EP: How did you manage having a job and keeping up with your school work?

KS: I stayed up late and studied. Um--.. that's probably it. Because I did well, I got really good grades in college so--.


EP: Did you go off campus much during your years of attendance?

KS: No too much, sometimes we would go to know for a special occasion or something um what they then called supper clubs, I don't know if they still call them that but they were little fancier restaurants you know. Um, But I don't remember going to off campus much- pretty much self-contained there.

EP: What were some of your- other than the small events what some your favorite that you did with your friends while you were here?

KS: like I say the sorority =, we did some service projects or some of the fun 00:37:00things we'd have competitions between the sororities and fraternities like we did show tunes from like movies or Broadway plays and we competed. The sororities and fraternities competed with each other. We had um-we did tunes from a show called peter pan. You know, we had our little green outfits and our caps with the feather and we sang the songs. So, just practicing was a lot of fun.

EP: During your attendance were- did you notice that there were more male of campus or more females on campus, like how was that?

KS: I didn't notice an overabundance of males there probably were more guys than 00:38:00gals but not so much so that it wasn't comfortable ro anything. There was something called the vets club, I don't know that's still in existence. They were veterans that had been in the military and were coming back to college. So they were older than most of us. And sometimes the sororities would do things with them too but they really knew how to drink beer so could be dangerous. Well that was one things we did off campus, I think on Wednesday night was the night would go to the bar. And the two bars that were probably the most--. well known 00:39:00was one called the Rale and one called the Loft. And a lot of the times girls would and guys would go and they would hope to see meet people. Probably still happens like that.

EP: What was it like being a women during this time?

KS: Well, since I was in the field of education I you know I would- elementary education- I would say that there were a lot more women in my classes than guys. I don't think- like I said you know we did- there were not that I'm athletic 00:40:00anyway, but there were no- not much in the way of sports offered for women. Um--..I guess I never felt necessarily discriminated against for being a woman. Maybe I didn't know any better but you know I had my career track in mind and it was okay. The amazing thing and this is skipping ahead to when I graduated from college. I graduated with my um, MB degree in education. And I applied for a job in Madison, Wisconsin and I could say what grade I wanted to teacher. There were 00:41:00so many vacancies for teachers I could ask for a particular grade. I was so fortunate in my first job I was in a brand new school, it was the first year it was never used and my principle was a woman, which was a real role model for me.

EP: How were sororities viewed at the time knowing that was new for women to come onto campuses? So, how were they viewed was it a negative way, was it a positive way or was there not really a reaction at all?

KS: I don't think it was negative although some people thought it was frivolous, which I don't really think it was. At least I don't think was because we did 00:42:00things to help others as well as providing leadership roles in our sorority you know with people on the governing team officers but um, for the most part I think they were viewed positively.

EP: Being a part of the women's governing board did um, you see any differences or you guys have any things that you would do that- that um took part in making women- well having an impact on women on campus?

KS: Well, as I mentioned we brought in a number of women speakers who were 00:43:00important roles within the state or even the United States. And I think being able to see what these women were able to do and accomplish gave the women who attended in campus something to strive for or immolate. You know they saw that women could leaders and important and things like that.

EP: Were there any main issues that occurred on UWO regarding gender when you were there?

KS: Not that I am aware of.

EP: Um, okay. What was the social like between men and women, like I remember 00:44:00you saying that there were people who did have relations with each other but other than were there- was there a lot men and women interacts with other things on campus as far events and like parties or anything?

KS: Well, the sororities and fraternities you know have a lot of joint parties. I a sorority and a fraternity would have a party together. Um, some of the other clubs I mentioned the vets club, they were big into parties and inviting us you know sorority people. Um, since I was in a sorority I guess that was a lot of my social so I don't know that i know a lot about what other might- i know there 00:45:00was a club it was called the Newman club for Catholic people and I know they did a lot events and things that everyone was invited to. Um, and that was co-ed. And football games we had a lot of fun football games. I don't remember going to as many basketball games. But on a nice fall afternoon in Wisconsin perfect to go to an football game.

EP: What were the- how was it process of trying to graduate with a degree in education, like was it hard, and was it easy like were some bumps in the road 00:46:00for you?

KS: Well I think I- I had to study. I-I. My parents-well since I wanted my mom to feel justified in pushing for em to go to college I really wanted to do well for my parents. So, I studied a lot and I got good grades. The one thing I probably didn't get an "A" in was phy ed. because I never was very athletic. So, I think one of the things I took in phy ed college was swimming and I wore contacts.  I didn't feel comfortable putting my face in the water. So, I don't 00:47:00think I did very well in swimming. But other than that my academic adventures were okay. I don't- I don't recall you know, worrying excessively about getting an failing grade in any class I took or anything like that. One interesting that happened when I was in college and I don't know this was either 1961 or 1962. And I think there had been somethings just recently in the news about it, was that Russia was putting some missiles in Cuba. John Kennedy was president at that time and he challenged them on it and say you  know that we would shoot 00:48:00our own missiles if they did that. So there was one day and night that was going to be to confrontation of there was going to be one. And I remember I live in the sorority house at that time, we all thought that maybe this was going to be the end maybe we would destroyed by a nuclear or an atomic bomb. And we seriously thought that that night but Russia pulled back. So, I remember very vividly that.

EP: While going to UWO at the time had you seem anyone else of different race there during your attendance?


KS: I did, um, i think there were a few black people and probably more hispanic people. One of my boyfriend's best friend was hispanic. Um, you know of course many more white people but there people of different races.

EP: Had you seen any type of racism being displayed towards people of different races while you were there?

KS: Like I said, we had the demonstration in the very recesses on my mind I thought it had something to do with discrimination but I can't say that for sure 00:50:00but I would guess that the few black people were there did probably feel one hundred percent comfortable. Im involved here in my city Lake Oswego something called Response to Racism. And even though I know all of this looking again and hearing from black people about how they have approach certain things in life compared to myself who- when I don't even think about but I do have white privilege. So, I would think that they people of other races when I was in 00:51:00college probably have to same situations were they had to tread carefully. I don't remember any overt kinds of things- there could have been I just don't remember.

EP: So how did  you feel when you finished school?

KS: Oh, it was bittersweet because I loved college. I really did. And um, but I- my first job as I told you was a, well I didn't say this part I was a fourth grade teacher in Madison, Wisconsin and my beginning salary was eleven thousand dollars a year. And I thought it was just amazing that I would make that much money.

EP: So, right after college what exactly did you do? Did you do straight into 00:52:00working in your major or did you find a different job in the meantime like what was the process there?

KS: No, you know, I graduated in I don't know May or June and then I had a summer job. And then in when school started I lived in Madison with- in a house with other women. And of them was a fourth grade teacher at the same school that I was a fourth grade teacher at. And we were both beginning teachers so we did a lot of cooperating and helping each other but no I immediately went into my field on teaching. And I taught there for one year and then I got married and 00:53:00then I taught in a suburb of Milwaukee for a couple of years. And then my then husband and I went to live in England for two years


EP: That's really cool.

KS: And then when I- we came back I taught one more year in New Berlin and then I had a baby. And then we moved to Oregon. And I have never taught here, I did other things.

EP: Do you remember the name of the schools that you taught at?

KS: I'm thinking--.I know the one in Madison started with an "E" it was something like Elmyra or I don't think that's probably the name. I was a teacher 00:54:00in that school on the day that John Kennedy got shot. And my-my students, my fourth graders, all the students would go home for lunch. That was amazing they all lived in the neighborhood, and they walked home. And so when they started coming back the news had you know been starting to come out. And I remember our principle- we each had a tv screen in our classroom and she turned on the new on all the tv screens. It was a sad time.

EP: I remember you saying you like when you first got out of college there were lots of spots open for jobs as teachers, did those jobs fill up quickly or were 00:55:00there still a lack of teachers while you were teaching?

KS: You know I didn't teach for too many years but I never had a problem finding a job. When I got married we moved to Milwaukee, and then I taught in Greenfield-Greendale, one of those two. I wanted to teach third or fourth grade and I taught third grade there for a couple of years. Then when we came back from living in England, I taught one more year in New Berlin and I taught fourth grade there, which was what I wanted to do. So, it was very different and I think is today. Sometimes people graduate with a degree in education and they 00:56:00can't find a job.

EP: Do you think college prepared you for the real world?

KS: I think so pretty much.

EP: Um, why do you think that? Or what make you think that?

KS: You know I think college taught me how to learn even when I was out of school, which I think is really important for people to be able to continue their learning. Um, and I think it made-gave me confidence that I could do something like graduate from college. And I felt very comfortable I felt I knew how to be a teacher because was trained to do that in college. Buthen my life 00:57:00took other turns and so I've do other things too besides teaching. But I think just my making my way through college in both the academic and the social and the psychological experiences I had in college gave me a lot of confidence that I could almost anything I set my mind to. My longest career kind of  thing was being a certified financial planner, which I had to do this big course for. It was a lot of work, challenging kind of thing and I am very proud that I was able 00:58:00to do that. It was a hard course to do. But I had a lot clients that I did financial planning for. And they really- I'm retired now, they really liked me a lot. So, and I liked them. But I felt I was doing something important to help them plan for there years in retirement. And I think that was a teaching thing too. Even though I wasn't teaching kids I wasn't teaching kids, I was teaching adults.

EP: Have you been involved with the university since you graduated?

KS: I really haven't. Living so far away it's hard, you know. When they did the fifth anniversary for our class I wish I had gone back but I didn't. So--.  


EP: Have you been back to the university since you graduated at all?

KS: I haven't.

EP: Or back to Wisconsin or Oshkosh?

KS: Yes I have been back to Wisconsin a lot of time because well first both of nt parents lived there then my dad died and then my mom after a while became ill. I would come back every few months to spend time with her. Since she passes away a few years ago I have not been other than a couple of years ago we came back, my husband and I came back and we brought our two granddaughters because I wanted to show them where I grew up, where I rode my bike to school those kinds 01:00:00of things but I didn't bring them to Oshkosh.

EP: What advice would you give to a current student at the university?

KS: Take advantage of what's offered to you there. Um, it's a wonderful time of your life and just enjoy the present moment as the say. And work hard and have some fun too


EP: That is some really good advice. Thank you so much Karen for offering your time to do this interview. It was absolutely amazing getting all of the information. It was very helpful and um, thank you again for letting me do this 01:01:00interview and taking the time out of your day.


KS: Well your very welcome and when you class gets all finished is there going to be to hear these for me?

EP: Yes, there is a way that I can send you a copy of the interview.

KS: I mean other people's too?

EP: I'm not sure about anyone else's.