Interview with Patrick Vander Zanden, 01/21/2022

UW Oshkosh Campus Stories
Transcript
Toggle Index/Transcript View Switch.
Index
Search this Transcript
X
00:00:00

´╗┐GL: This is Grace Lim interviewing Patrick Vander Zanden. On Friday, January 21, 2022, for Campus COVID Stories. Campus COVID Stories is a collection of oral stories from students and staff at the University of Wisconsin-Oshkosh, but their experiences in the time of COVID. Thank you for sharing your stories with us. Before we get started, could you please state your name and spell it for us?

PVZ: Absolutely. So Patrick Vander Zanden. P-A-T-R-I-C-K V-A-N-D-E-R space Z-A-N-D-E-N.

GL: Now for the purposes of getting a good audio recording, tell us again, who you are and what your title is here at UW Oshkosh?

PVZ: Sure. So my name is Patrick Vander Zanden. My title is coordinator of initiatives assessment and special programs, the Department of Residence Life.

GL: Okay. And then what does what exactly is that?

PVZ: So it's essentially a project manager role. I oversee a lot of large scale 00:01:00events and projects. So move-in the move-in event is a 12 month project for us. We just did a Social Justice Institute, I oversaw that. And then I do all of our assessment. I do some of our cultural work like strengths, gallop strengths work. And I oversee a team of managers that supervise all of our super all excuse me, all of our desks, service desks on campus. So all of our service desks in the halls, Hall, front desk, what have you. I supervise all those that's about 120 student employees. And so that's kind of all under the umbrella of my role.

GL: Okay. Yeah, I think I jumped ahead. But um, let's, let's talk about where you grew up. And, and a little bit about that.

PVZ: Sure. So I grew up in Green Bay, Wisconsin, primarily in De Pere, Wisconsin. But between those two cities, and I Yeah, it was a nice, it was a nice upbringing, you know, packers right down the street. That was really neat. 00:02:00I remember we got get to cut out of school, when they won the Super Bowl in 96. And so it was neat it was a neat upbringing. And yeah, I lived there pretty much until I went, I left for college.

GL: And where did you go to college?

PVZ: I did my undergrad at UW Milwaukee. And, yeah, I really enjoyed my time there. It's a great institution. And yeah,.

GL: And what degrees did you earn?

PVZ: Oh, I studied, I got a degree in broad fields, Social Studies for secondary ed. So I, you know, had gone I wanted to be a high school history teacher, and it was right kind of before well, when the market crashed in 2008. And so a lot of the near retirees for social studies, teachers didn't weren't retiring. So, you know, I graduated and there weren't, there weren't a lot of openings. There's gonna be like 150 applicants per position, which is kind of how I ended 00:03:00up, you know, through a roundabout way I ended up here, at UWO.

GL: Tell us how you got here?

PVZ: So I was working for residents like at UW Milwaukee, and there was two, two or three two people for sure. That had been working at UW Oshkosh previously, and then worked at UW-Milwaukee. And they said, you know, if you want to go to grad school, you can do this for a career. And, you know, they kind of knew that that would- that might be a good track for me or a good alternate for me. And it's funny, they said, there's a man there named Marc Nylen and everything he touches turns to gold. And I was like, Okay, that's great. Fast forward now to 2022, we him and I worked closely at as close as possible throughout the entire pandemic, we were kind of a tag team in our work for isolation and quarantine. So it's kind of wild actually how that ties out.

GL: So really, tell me again, how did you end up from Milwaukee?

00:04:00

PVZ: Milwaukee? Yep. So basically, I had so I was encouraged to apply here. But what I went through the Oshkosh Placement Exchange, which is a hiring conference hosted here, as an undergraduate student from Milwaukee, I applied at a bunch of different institutions throughout the Midwest. And I got I ended up hiring or getting hired here. And it was really nice. My wife did her undergraduate work here. And so you know, I think that kind of helped influence like she knew the campus as well. And it just worked for both of our career ladders to settle down here in the Oshkosh area.

GL: And when was that when was your first appointment?

PVZ: So I started my first day here was July 28, 2008. And my first role here was a graduate assistantship. I was working as an assistant Residence Hall Director for Stewart Hall, Evans Hall. I was based out of Stuart Hall lived in there and then had had an office is connected to the department there. And I did 00:05:00that for two years. And then from there, I went back to the Oshkosh Placement Exchange, I was hired full time here. So like a full time professional staff position, and I served as a hall director for two years in Taylor Hall from 2010 to 2012. And then I opened horizon village, that facility when that opened. I opened that facility and ran that facility for operated a facility from 2012 to spring in 2016.

GL: And did you say you went to graduate school here?

PVZ: I did. I did my graduate school here for educational leadership. And with an emphasis on kind of emphasis in educational leadership, higher ed, and under Dr. Kramer at the time.

GL: And what year did you earn your master's?

PVZ: So I did that from 2010 to 2012. So I graduated, I completed that in spring of 2012.

GL: And how long have you been in the position you have now?

00:06:00

PVZ: I'm sorry, I mixed those years up. I did that from 2008 to 2010. So I don't know what I'm sorry, date correction at 20 2008 to 2010. And then what was your other question?

GL: When did you, how long have you had the position that you have now?

PVZ: Oh, since the spring of 2016. So I served in that role as an interim position for one year. And then I went to the hiring process and was hired full time, but I've been doing consistently since 2016.

GL: And tell me again, who you supervise.

PVZ: So I it's changed over the years, you know, with budget shortfalls and stuff like that, we've cut things out. But currently I only supervise a student staff of six desk managers. And, and under that preview is 120, student desk receptionist or desk worker employees. But over the years, I've had kind of other groups that we've just kind of had to cut away, for example, an artist office, just due to low enrollment.

00:07:00

GL: All right, so tell me again, the pre COVID, what was your what were your roles?

PVZ: So pre COVID, my I kind of had three functions. So I had an artist office. That was about seven employees. And they were graphic designers based out of Residence Life, we did all the design for recruitment marketing for the department, but also a lot in the Division of Student Affairs and the Student Rec and Wellness Center. I had a team of project managers that would do large scale events and programs in the department. And then I had the desk manager team. That was in addition to you know, the large scale events that I did. I since 2016, I was always doing the COOP plans that continuity of operations planning for the department. So all emergency management stuff, which is kind of funny, because once COVID happened, we you know, we'd write these detailed COOP plans every year for an emergency. And once COVID happened, like we threw that 00:08:00all at the window, you know, we never really went to that. So, sorry if I digress, but this this kind of what I was up to before COVID is very, you know, it's very clean, it's very like these are your functional areas, and you just come to work and do these things. And the calendar kind of sets the projects that we're working on. And that was it.

GL: Tell me about a couple of the big events.

PVZ: So we had kind of ope hall opening or move in, we had we would do a sophomore or excuse me, not a sophomore, a transfer student, which was were typically sophomores, Transfer student welcome mid year, for folks that are transferring. We tried to kind of do like a little bit of a welcome for them. We had hall closing, I would work on the Oshkosh Placement Exchange. And then just kind of smaller events. So if we did an in internal kind of like clothing drive, 00:09:00so we'd call a goodwill, not landfills. We try to capture all the all the stuff that didn't need to get thrown away when people were moving out. Furniture, clothing, things like that. We try to orchestrate that across all the buildings. And so all that stuff would kind of fall under my responsibility.

GL: So are you responsible for all the students. When I mean how many students are we talking about that's involved in say like in the move-in?

PVZ: Ah all of them. Yeah, so when we do a move in, we've done it in a number of ways. But when we're talking numbers, pre COVID is probably like 3100-3200 and post COVID or during COVID it's about 2100. So when we do a move in, where we spread it out over a few days, but it's usually you know, 3 to 5000 people because people bring guests people to help them and then you know anywhere from 4000 to 7000 vehicles. And so we manage the traffic of all that we manage, you know moving the amount of people in that that stuff like that that entails.

00:10:00

GL: Are you also responsible for the students in the residence in the residence halls too?

PVZ: Um.

GL: Or is there somebody else that?

PVZ: Oh, like in the building itself? So I was right. So when I was a Residence Hall Director, I would have one property that or building that I kind of manage physical, like the physical aspects, and then also those the students within that building, you know, were kind of under my purview. So you'd meet with them for kinda things like that. But now I am more removed in our central office now.

GL: Okay, I just want to get that clear. Okay. Alright, so let's move to the early days of COVID. Do you remember, when you first heard about this virus?

PVZ: I do. Um, I remember reading an article on Vice. And it was something it was it was Vice or the Economist or I remember looking at reading on Vice and looking up somewhere else. And I remember the first thing was, it was about no, 00:11:00you can't either cure this virus or catch this virus from drinking Corona Beer. And that was the first I heard of it. I swear, I swear, that's true. And I remember being like, what is this? And there was like, oh, there's a case out in Washington State, you know, or something like that. And that was the very first I remember reading about it. I remember sitting in my office, and I was looking on my phone, and I saw it.

GL: At what point did you realize that this is something that, you know, we need to keep a watch on and be concerned about?

PVZ: I would say after our first EOC meeting. So previous to that we had had, what was technically, you know, not anything to that scale, but we had a noro outbreak on campus, nor norovirus outbreak in specifically in the residence halls. And so I you know, and we got to that fairly well, right. Like, it was like, oh, we just we buckled down and Frank Mazanka kind of took the lead on he's in charge of custodial. I'm sure you'll talk to him. But he kind of took 00:12:00the lead on that. And we got through it. But so when I first heard it, I was like, oh, we'll be fine. And then we had this first EOC meeting, and there was a ton of people. And we were all down in the basement of the police department, the new the new PD now where it sits now would it be in the bottom of the Student Health Center. And we had this meeting no masks, tons of people. And I remember kind of just the tone was different in the room, lots of big names that usually weren't at our meetings. Like we used to have these tabletops once a month, or be like, oh, this happened or this happened, right? And some of that, and suddenly, a lot more people were there. And I was like, somethings up here.

GL: Okay, let's go back to the norovirus. And that was when?

PVZ: So golly, that was probably 20 probably 2016-2017, something like that. And 00:13:00we had an Norovirus outbreak in the hall, in specifically in Scott Hall is where it started. South things like ninth floor. And it came to our attention like, Oh, these just like four women got sick. And then we start figuring out like, oh, it's this thing spreading. And the thing about Noro is its surface contact, right? So you know, there was talk, like, should we just shut down and send everyone home for two weeks? This is way pre COVID. And but they said you could do that, but you know, it's still going to be on the on someone's desk when they get back. Right. So we have to ride this thing out. And I remember then meeting we'd meet and Reeve, and people would be worried about like touching things and wearing gloves and things like that. Now, I found that to be super interesting. But that was probably like a month and a half. And we got through it. You know, custodial came through they aggressively cleaned. We went out invested a lot in 00:14:00Oxivir wipes, which was like a brand at the time. And we handed them out to everyone and we you know, we put them in bathrooms in all the halls and we asked people to wipe down stuff spray we, you know, I was managing the desks at that time, still am. But we had high power sprays and cleaners available for checkout at the desk, things like that. Right? And so, when COVID first happened, I was like, oh, we're just gonna do that again. You know, and then I think that's what really at least in my mind, I was like, okay, especially with this is surface transmission. I remember walking past the parking ramp talking to someone like yeah, COVID doesn't even spread, you know, in the air, so we don't really have to worry about it as much, which obviously we know now is completely false. But see that that's that that was kind of the tie in to the Noro outbreak that I guess was technically a small pandemic on this campus.

GL: And that was really contained in that one dorm right? It did not go to other 00:15:00dorms or did it?

PVZ: It did. So we had a small scale tracker where we would track cases reported per building. And it showed up, it showed up in almost all the buildings, it showed up and Reeve. And this was individuals that, you know, worked in there, something like that. But it was it was short lived. And so it went under the radar pretty quickly, right, people moved on, but it did, it did move to the other halls, because, you know, it's just surface transmission, hand to hand, you know, and it's not like now where people are like, you know, like, it's pretty rare now to see people shake hands like that stuff was all very common place. Right? And so it did, it did move through the campus quickly. But, you know, we got through it, I guess.

GL: Do you remember the numbers of students effected or people?

PVZ: It was a lot. Um, I don't remember. I's hate to like kind of telltale, and just go like, oh, it was this the number, but I do remember, it was like, I mean, I feel like we had cases over 100 or in the hundreds. The data is out 00:16:00there. Yeah, some Julie Kahrs who's on this committee, she was part of that, I was part of that, Frank Mazanka was part of that. A couple folks are gone, right. So former director of the health Student Health Center is gone. The former IT director's gone. But yeah, it was it was it was it wasn't small. I'll tell you that.

GL: So but you were already part of that, that the original like EOC 1.0?

PVZ: Yeah, yep, I was. So I was in charge of all emergency management stuff for the department. And what that really amounted to is writing our COOP plan, our continuity operations plan, once a year is submitted to risk management. And then every so often quarterly, and then under Lieutenant Trent Martin, who has since left the university, he moved up to monthly meetings. But it was still all 00:17:00in theory, right? So this thing happened at a football game, what would we do? And then that's when that that's when, like I said, when they call that dig meeting, and all those other people showed up, that's when I started realize like, oh, this is something's going on something like this is called a lot more people's attention.

GL: So you probably did you get events word that, that we're shutting down? I mean, you must have,

PVZ: Yes, um, not by a ton. I was I was still surprised, I guess. I remember seeing the email and being surprised. I do remember that. Just because I was like, wow, that really jumped up there. But it there was some it was kind of like in theory, and then it just suddenly happened. That's the way I remember it. I remember I can remember clear as day getting the email, sitting in my office getting it being like, okay, wow, this is this is real.

GL: Do you remember what, what? What the conversation was? What? How did, how did you deal with your staff? Tell walk us through that.

00:18:00

PVZ: Yep. So we, you know, at that time, I had three different students staffs. And then I had like, my peers, like my professional peers. And so with them was kind of like, wow, this is crazy. But you know, it's gonna be two weeks and you know what, so we'll just get through it. So that was kind of the message with the student staff to is like, okay, everyone, work as remotely as possible. Now for two of the three teams, that was that was good, right? So we had artists team, they could bring their computers home, most of them you know, by the nature of the classes they're enrolled in have the equipment already to do the work, or, hey, sit, sit six feet apart, still no masks, like that wasn't a thing yet. And they just, we just kind of worked. Now, the other team was the desk operations. And that was that was different because, you know, we still didn't really know and it was like, then it started be like mask, no masks, should wear masks, you know, plexiglass dividers, stuff like that. But that was people 00:19:00working together all the time, in person, you know, as a human transaction, right? And so that was different, they couldn't work remotely, but we did as much as we could remotely so all our meetings weren't remote. You know, we communicate a lot and it was very hectic in the in the very beginning, right before they kind of did the, lots of people got furloughed. And I just remember we met for probably at least once a day as a as a team of deskman with the desk managers on, because we were no longer just facilitating like keys and mail a lot of things were going through the desks, right? They were kind of the last ones there. And the desk workers and the desk managers are kind of last ones there. So mail, you know, people were leaving to people were giving the keys and just leaving the institution. And some people were here and that was before everyone got sent home like all the students got sent home to. And so I do remember that. So that that was that was the student staff that was super kind 00:20:00of interesting. And then with the professional staff, it was like, oh, well, you know, it's kind of crazy. I remember we get the Chancellor's email and everyone kind of is like, we'll work we'll work here for the rest of the day. And then we'll start working remote the next day. You know, yeah.

GL: So I think that first email came out, I can't remember when but it was you know a week before we were sent home a week before spring break started.

PVZ: Yes.

GL: Did you and your staff, you know, were you part of the student moving out?

PVZ: Yeah. So because a lot of that was run through the desks, right? So like checking out cards to move out, which was, I just remember that, particularly, because, you know, we had to wipe down every card every time, you know, and there was talk, should we even give people carts to move out, because, you know, we're going to facilitate the transmission of COVID. But we did, you know, we 00:21:00provided all those materials. But yeah, I didn't, I didn't go like room to room or anything like that. I was more so planning, the structure of staffing the desks, making sure that they were available, getting those resources. And, and figuring out so there's two kind of big challenges was keys, key compliance, making sure that we got everyone's keys back, which we didn't, you know, like a lot of that we just had to re key the doors and cut new keys. And then mail was a super big challenge, because a lot of people just were sent home, you know, and the idea was like, he'll be back, which didn't really pan out that way. Eventually, they had to come back, get their stuff and leave, right? And in that, a lot of mail was left behind. And so what we ended up doing was, we spent at least a week I was I would say we took all the mail from all 10 buildings that were occupied, we set up kind of a mail, kind of sorting room or spacing, 00:22:00Gruenhagen Conference Center on the first floor. And took us about a week to look up everyone's individual forwarding addresses, making make a label and then work with USPS or private providers to get it all shipped back out to them. So and that and that lasted for a long time is at least a week of sorting. And then we'd still have, you know, like, all the carriers at that time. They were kind of, you know, pushing back to or they didn't want to do pickups. They wanted to just like we need to move on. And so I mean, I remember working into summer to still get some of these packages picked up either by residents like hey, come plea, please come drive back to Oshkosh and get your package, or just getting shipped like FedEx to beg them to come pick it up.

GL: I didn't even think about that.

PVZ: Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, no one did, right? And then we're like, this is this is all legal tender, you know, I mean, like, we have a responsibility to do this. Get rid of this, you know, get back to them.

GL: So did you have student staff still working for you during this time during the time that when everybody else was sent home?

PVZ: Yes. So for a while. And then so we got through all that we closed down all 00:23:00the desks. And so we so what happened was some students started to just drift away, they would be like, I'm I'm resigning for the year. I don't I can't work. I don't want to work. I'm afraid to work, understandably. And then some were like, I need the money. I did not concern I went to work. And then we had our manager team. And they were just really great students. They were student employees. But they were just really great. And they, they were like, we're committed. We're doing this. And we got through all that stuff. We offloaded kind of all the, you know, the legal stuff. We had to take care of the mail, the packages, materials, belongings, keys, and then it kind of just dwindled. And they essentially kind of got laid off or furloughed when I did, right? So when most people at the university got continuously furloughed, that's when those student employees also, we shut that down to.

00:24:00

GL: When did you go on furlough?

PVZ: Golly, I think it was. I feel like it was May 5 or something like that. I feel like it was it was I'd have to, I'd have to check. But it was consistent with whatever the big one is. And again, it's kind of crazy. It messes with your memory, but I feel like it was made to August.

GL: So what was that like for you all of a sudden? I mean, you've you have your own now you have your own life. Yeah. Yep. All of a sudden to have this happen. What was that, you know what was going through your head?

PVZ: Um, I remember sitting at home my boss called me. And he you know, you could tell he didn't it was tough, you know, and it wasn't gonna be good. You could see kind of knew what was gonna happen. And it was a bummer, right? It was like, well, this this is a bummer. Now, at the same time, I had two kids at the time. One was a first grader. Yeah. So she, yeah, half of kindergarten, and then 00:25:00they started first grade was all virtual. And so one was actually she's finishing kindergarten at that time. Excuse me, sorry. She's finishing kindergarten at the time. And so that was kind of like, okay, well, I still have utility, right? Which is terrible to say, like, you know, because but you, you, I've fall, fallen into that trap before where you, you pin, you know, a lot of utility to like, this is my employment, right? This is what I do. And I didn't have that. And so I helped her through finished kindergarten. And then, you know, but it was still kind of scary, because I was like, well, dang, two kids, you know, one still in diapers, you know, and now the income is going to be you know, I remember first calculating, like, all the income with unemployment is going to be about 30%. Oh, you know, now that it turned out to be better, because they had the stimulus. But, um, but I remember feeling very uneasy about it. I remember being like, well, I guess, at least this summer, right, like, trying to see the good in it. And I remember thinking like, you know, there's 00:26:00like three people left from the department. So I was like, well, I'm not, it's not like it's I'm the only one right? So I tried not to personalize it too much. But do remember it being a bummer. Yeah.

GL: When did you come back in person?

PVZ: So I came back in person. It was quite some time I was brought back. So I was brought back remotely. Like, beginning to August, right of 20. What would it be 2020. And then we started gearing up for moving one of my big projects, right? I would have to come in from time to time. But it was primarily remote and then just get in, I think we ended up splitting it up. So like, every Tuesday was my day where you had to be in to help cover the office, right? And I 00:27:00did that for a while I did every Tuesday, I think up until Thanksgiving. And then it switched. But I was really only in I was remote unless I had to be for like something physical to get ready for move in. I came drove down everyday for moving to get people settled in a couple of days afterwards. And then we were back remote for that year, that academic year. Excuse me, like I said, I covered Tuesdays up until Thanksgiving, at which point, I took a couple month break from that. Because at the time, you know, my wife was expecting so we you know, we had a third child coming. And I remember just we were very concerned about there's a lot of at the time, there was not a lot known, but he there was a lot of like kind of scary stuff about if you were to get COVID in the third trimester, I remember that. And so that's that kind of lined up. And I asked to just stay remote for that time period, you get through the through till the 00:28:00first of the year, because the baby's coming New Years. And I did that. So that and that continued on. And then in the spring, you know, I was in from time to time, I think, you know, usually one day a week or something like that. But sometimes it'd be months, it'd be like two months, and I'd come back. And that continued all the way up till August 2 of that next year when we're all brought back.

GL: Okay. Tell me about the move-in of 2020.

PVZ: Sure. So, move-in of 2020 was super interesting, because it was kind of like everything went out the window. So we, you know, Chancellor Leavitt used to say I mean, I mean, he said what I'm not I'm not judging that. But he about the old version. He said, well it's the crown jewel of move-in of the of the UW System. And it's very high touch. You know, we'd have golf carts driving around with coolers with water in them just to give parents and, you know, it was like, we want to did have the Cadillac experience. You come, you don't even take the 00:29:00stuff out of your vehicle, we have a swarm of students help take it out, move it up to your room, and you're done. And we didn't understand what we could or couldn't do. Right? What was safe? And so we cut all that out. There were no student volunteers. I mean, we had gone from 500 450 to 500 student volunteers year after year, to zero. And not because there weren't students that didn't want to help, but we were like, we can't have people congregate. And so it became very bare bones. We, you know, we did our very best, but I even remember being laid off or furloughed and getting texts from my friend being like, who worked in a different department saying, hey, have you heard what's going on with move-in because they would publish stuff and I was like, I'm not even working. It was just one of the three people left in the department that was like publishing stuff for students and parents and families, right? So anyways, fast forward to the actual move-in event. You know, it was very like, everyone's 00:30:00very cautious. I remember, lots of people wore gloves, lots of people wear masks. There's there were people that didn't, not employees. Everyone is really compliant in our regard, but there's some parents that didn't. And we were I remember we were instructed to offer, offer the parents a mask and say that they're required. And then just leave it at that, right? But it was very bare bones, we offered carts, we did that type of stuff, but we sanitized, we scrubbed every cart after each individual use. And we basically just did it by the alphabet. So if your last name comes between A and C, you show up at this time, so on and so forth, over the course of four days.

GL: And usually move in as how many days?

PVZ: Move-in previous to COVID was two days, technically three days, there was like a kind of early moving day where like, people that work to the bookstores, student rec, stuff like that would come in all those volunteers, those four or 500 volunteers would come in on the Saturday and then Sunday and Monday of Labor 00:31:00Day weekend, that was historically move-in. Two days, you know, over 2000, like 1200 1300 people per day, we just get them in 500 people across campus in 30 minutes. Like that was the top, you know, we use, we'd take offline two parking lots so lot 25 lot 27. So it's like nursing, nursing ed. And then the heat plant building, we'd take those offline it was like, it was like an aircraft carrier. We just rifle people through very good, very successful, lots of compliments. That was the crown jewel version, right? And then we didn't do that we had it all just like, hey, just show up during this time, show up directly to your hall and get your key and get in. And we ask people to move in, and then leave, and then come back once classes started. Because again, we didn't know we can you congregate, what's going to happen? Are people going, everyone going to get COVID right away, and then no one can go to class? And some people did some 00:32:00people didn't. But yeah, it went from two days to four days, five days, five days technically.

GL: The experience for the kids moving in is probably I mean it's like night and day. I mean, coming college usually is a joyful event.

PVZ: Yes.

GL: New adventure and everything

PVZ: Yep, we call it the first homecoming.

GL: And then COVID hit and kind of turned everything upside down. So let me ask you the- when you ask them to leave, like I can't remember how many days before class was the move-in the pand- the first pandemic-.

PVZ: Yeah, so depending on when you came in, it was like, it was like Wednesday through Sunday. So depending when you came in classes don't start didn't start until that Tuesday after. So you at least had like two days, some people had like four days or five days. But, but most people didn't. Most people stayed. 00:33:00But I even remember, like people just stayed and stayed in the room. You know, it was very different. You know, like you said, it's a joyous event. And some people were very timid some people didn't they did the traditional things that people do. They went to the events that were planned things like that, even though it was like outside spaced out what have you. But yeah, it was very different. You know, some people had a big gap between that when they started class.

GL: And then, as a member of the EOC, tell us about your role in that.

PVZ: Sure. So it's funny because the EOC really never picked up until after the big furlough. And then we came back. I remember we came back, it was early August, this we started meeting four days a week. And pretty quick within that first week, they said, we're gonna run an isolation and quarantine facility and you're gonna operate me, right? Like that was gonna be my role. And so that was my role on the EOC still is, but we were meeting four or five days a week for 00:34:00three hours, two three hours at a time, and we would tape the whole meeting every single day. And it wasn't just for people like talking to themselves. It was just like, there was just tons of work to do, right. And so initially, we had done isolation in quarantine. Or excuse me isolation in Webster Hall, we'd taken Webster Hall offline completely. And then we had done quarantine and a floor two of Gruenhagen. That was kind of the Wild West. You know, people were afraid to work in that building. And so people were relatively you know, we had relatively low staff. I remember there was a time when the chancellor came and work behind the desk. And so that was pretty interesting. And quickly we you know, quickly into that fall we realized we need to move it to Gruenhagen which is where it is now so everything isolation and quarantine is all was all under one roof then. Made it much easier to distribute keys to keep order to make sure 00:35:00people are fed properly, things like that.

GL: How long was it in Webster Hall?

PVZ: We got through the first really big spike. In September, October, I think like September 21, we had like 97 positives in a day. And that that filled we filled Webster Hall. We started people started have roommates, and and we spilled over into Gruenhagen. We said we got to move people into Gruenhagen. And that's, that's what kind of started it. And I think we sunsetted using Webster, we stopped using Webster in October of that of that first go around. So fairly quickly, it was like two months.

GL: How many beds did you have in Webster Hall?

PVZ: In Webster, I think we had 198 beds. And, and the thing about that too, was we didn't know enough at the time for turnover, room turnover, how long you have to let it sit before it's safe to go in and clean the room, right? Stuff like 00:36:00that. And so we'd be letting them sit we you know, we're doing all sorts of different stuff, right? And so when we moved it, you know, we then dedicated essentially the entire facility Gruenhagen to isolation quarantine, we had hundreds and hundreds of rooms. What we've dedicated over time is different, but like, you know, we there were times where we had, you know, like, a couple 100 rooms for isolation and a couple 100. And when I say rooms, I guess I say I mean beds for isolation rooms for quarantine, because you can put two isolated people in one room, and but not in quarantine, right? And so like today, we have, you know, 266 isolation beds and 99 quarantine rooms. But you know, that's small potatoes comparison to what we did at the start.

GL: So, just to clarify, the quarantine rooms are for those who actually tested positive and the isolation is for those who are in close contact?

00:37:00

PVZ: So it's switch, so it's switch. So it's isolation, is you've tested positive, and Quarantine is you know, your close cont- you've been deemed to close contact and you're usually waiting test results. And so often we have people either come in quarantine and never test positive or they test positive and they literally physically move over to isolation.

GL: Tell, tell us describe what it was like for the first people that arrived at Webster Hall when no one knows what's going on.

PVZ: Yeah, it was really interesting. So it was really interesting. So like, when it first started, it was kind of again, it was the Wild West. So like people didn't know what was safe. And so we first were handing out room keys to Webster Hall in Albee, in the Albee testing site, and very quickly realized that wasn't gonna be that wasn't it. We just didn't know they were just handing them 00:38:00out not keeping good track. No, no, no shame on them. They're like doing testing and stuff like that. Then we quickly within like a week or two moved into the police department. Well, that still was really hard because they have police work to do to. And that's when we staffed it at Webster. So when they first I remember when we like the first few people that were arriving it was right away it was during moving during moving day. Because you were also requested to go test in Albee before you moved in, or at least drop your stuff off and then go test in Albee. And people did it and tested positive. And then they just went in there. And it was you know, it was a relatively empty facility at that time. You know, we did our best dining and the food vendor who's currently Alladin that's the third party vendor name. They did a tremendous job with dining, you know, they set up a whole lounge with fresh food, frozen meals, essentially like a 00:39:00convenience store. And it was all for the taking. You could take whatever you want. And they've even improved since then. But those first folks it was you know, it was different. It was they were kind of alone. And now the building filled up quickly. You know, and it seemed like they had a they had a lot of company and people were engaging and stuff like that. But they were you know, it was kind of on this COVID Island almost.

GL: And I think that the chief said that they were some of the students were rather cavalier thinking, well, we're all positive we can actually Yes Like instead of actually abiding by the rules.

PVZ: Yes. Yes. So, you know, people joked it was the Lord of the Flies and stuff like that. I don't think that was true, but it was definitely like, you know, people were like, well, we're all positive. So who cares? We can mingle. We can engage You know, we had, I remember we had, like, you know, we would, they would 00:40:00want to sneak non positive people in there, which is like why like, like a significant other, which is like, this is wild, like you're not, you're not positive, you're going into isolation facility. And so I think that was one of the compelling reasons to move it over as well. But just overall, it was much, you know, Gruenhagen conference center is much more suited, suited for that, because it's, it is a bit more like a hotel property in its in its function, I should say.

GL: And then, you know, so you were that you were in charge of the this aspect, you know, how, how long did you work on that? And you say, you're still working on it?

PVZ: Yep. Yep.

GL: So what are your day to day duties in that respect?

PVZ: Sure. So at first it clips, all my other job responsibilities, since you know, it's much better now. But basically, day to day at first, it was just 00:41:00managing the occupancy. Who's there? Who's in what room? Were all the keys? Do we have accounting for that? Are these people getting fed? Are we you know, things like that. Now, we've, I mean, again, credit to dining, we've never had a problem with food. That is that and other very large institutions, it has been the straw that broke the camel's back and send people home, whatever. So that was, that was what it was at first. And then it was, you know, how do we make it better? How do we enhance the experience? Right? How did the holidays roll around? How are we gonna, you know, all these folks can't go home or don't have a place to go home to because, you know, they don't want grandma getting sick, or whatever. And so, that was, that was the day to day for a long time. So I kind of start, you know, in the early days, you just you'd open the laptop, you check all the spreadsheets, you can kind of check your inbox and just start putting out all the fires. Like this person wants to move here, this person left or, you know, this incident happened, whatever, right? And then we got it really 00:42:00well oiled machine. And it became more about you know, every day, I still to this day, you report to the state to the UW system, your occupancy numbers, so how many beds are occupied? how many beds are vacant for isolation and quarantine? And then go from there. You know, it was kind of then it was just other COVID related matters, because for the department, I kind of became the catch all for COVID. So, you know, Michelle Bogden-Muetzel, who you will talk to. She, she would run the numbers every day. And then if we had a floor in residence hall, go over 10% positivity rate, then I would reach out to the members of that floor and put a mess, positive message but saying basically saying, hey, you know, get tested reminder, wash your hands, keep your distance, things like that. But the day to day was just putting out fires for a long time for months and months. And just managing the occupancy and what that entailed. And then making sure the rest of the staff, you know, could help facilitate that 00:43:00make sure people were trained, so on and so forth.

GL: Before I forget, I know that that when all the students were sent I mean everybody was sent home other than the central workers, I needed to keep the university running that March. I know that we had students who could not go home.

PVZ: Yes.

GL: Who, how many were there and how many stayed on campus uh stayed in the dorms?

PVZ: So we didn't have a ton, but we had we had some I think we had in the 20s that couldn't leave. And all those individuals were moved over to Gruenhagen Conference Center. So in the department essentially was left was the director Robert Babcock, the housing operations associate director Adam Hernandez, and then one Residence Hall Director, who at the time was Chris Christopher Wagner, he has a different role now. But they ran it and, and Christopher or Chris, he ran that facility, and it was about 21 people, but even then it was really low 00:44:00key. But I think they had one or two students, kind of Community Advisor employees on during that time, and they just kind of got through it. You know, it wasn't it wasn't super like, you know, we're gonna make popcorn and have a movie night. It wasn't anything like that.

GL: We're talking that. So right from the get go from that middle of March. The students were moved over to Gruenhagen.

PVZ: It was yeah, when we all got sent home there was some time I forget how long it was. I could I could find out, but and then basically what happened was the state we were approached by the state or the county someone was approached, we were approached by someone and they said, you know like we might need to use your buildings, like as makeshift hospitals. And so you need to clear them out. And so that's why we ended up telling everyone to come back and get their 00:45:00belongings out. And we had like very little time, right? Like it was not it was like a week or something like that. And that's why those 20 21 students or 20 some students were moved over to Gruenhagen, but it wasn't right away right away. It was. It was after a few weeks, like after all the employees were kind of sent home but before furlough, right? Yeah.

GL: So those students, those 21 students were they different dorms?

PVZ: Yeah, they consolidated down to one. Okay. Yep. So that was everyone that was left across all 10 buildings.

GL: But then, but they were still there for two weeks before you guys were before.

PVZ: Yeah.

GL: So who were there any adult employees or any employees?

PVZ: For sure. So at is still in that time, like the desks were staffed. You know, a lot of the community advisors stayed some didn't all the professional staff that run each the residence hall directors that run each facility or 00:46:00overseas facility, they were all there. And then come May, that's when we're all were furloughed, right? But basically, between March and May, that was that that kind of gray zone, where some people were here, some people weren't. And it was in that time that we consolidated as well.

GL: During this time that you were working on, I mean, you're on the pandemic team and everything. I mean, what were some things that kept you I mean, did you have any trouble sleeping at night?

PVZ: Um, you know, I didn't, per se because I was so tired. But there was a lot of nights where we were, you know, we were working, it wasn't uncommon in the beginning to work until like, 10 or 11, on even on Friday night, right? And so you, you, you kind of get done for the day only because, you know, I had two small children at the time. And you know, you do something with them, you go for a walk, eat dinner, and then I'd go back down to the basement, right? And then 00:47:00you'd work until like, 10 or 11. And then, you know, you wake up, you check, you check everything in the morning, check the spreadsheets in the morning, occupancy, spreadsheets, things like that on Saturday, Sunday, and you report those. But so I didn't necessarily have trouble sleeping physically, but there was a lot of stress, like I carried a lot of stress. But it wasn't necessarily didn't manifest in that way. But yeah, there were some it was it was different. There's some late nights there were some very late nights. I don't wanna say like all nighters. But, yeah, sleep was at a premium at a certain point. It was coffee, and it was caffeine and ibuprofen was a steady diet for a while.

GL: What were your you know, again, talking from, like, march through the December 21st December 2021? What were some of your big challenges?

PVZ: Um, you know, when we, when we filled Webster, that was hard. And that was 00:48:00and it happened very quickly. You know, we had a spike. And so that was very challenging. You know, I remember calling students at night and saying, hey, you might, you might get a roommate and the students were unfazed. They're like, Okay, sounds good. No problem. And then it was, you know, then it was the other big challenges. I mean, you know, getting furloughed, that was a challenge coming back, you didn't realize like, that's when the real work started, when we came back off of furlough. Because we had to make we had to make the university run again, right? And, and I remember the stress or the challenge of being like, what's going to happen, like, what's the next shoe to drop? When's the next bike going to be? You know, what is the issue? You know? Or this this incident happened in in isolation, quarantine, what are we going to do? But it is it kind of runs together a little bit. So yeah, I think the big stressful events were filling Webster, I think transferring over to Webster, or Webster to 00:49:00Grunenhagen, and then figuring out all that. You know, making sure the students felt safe. Student employees that were just working, facilitating it. Making sure that people were fed, and then adapting over time, right? So like, as we grew to know more, we adapted more so like, when we first started, let's say you got assigned isolation and quarantine, we'd say, hey, Grace, here's your here's your room keys and this is your bathroom assignments, you were assigned to stall and a shower stall to because we thought, you know, surface transmission stuff like that. And so, you know, I think a lot of the stress was just constantly adapting and being like scrap that that doesn't work. This isn't working, whatever. And just going kind of going from there.

GL: I mean, you at the time, your a parent of two young children and you had another one coming, you know, coming and the idea of working with a young I 00:50:00mean, really young adults who are college students, I mean, did that add to your anxiety or anything? I mean, like your concerns.

PVZ: Yeah. Right? For sure, because I mean, in some ways, right, because some were very conservative in their behavior, right? And some were more Cavalier or non unconcerned. And so, you know, and the first was the idea of like, I'm going into the office, which also is in the isolation quarantine facility, right? But at the same time, you know, there was such an energy, there was a very collective, like, we can do it energy amongst the students I was working with, and they were just really scrappy, and really positive. And, you know, they'd get called in at night, like, hey, we need a key audit, like we, you know, whatever, and they just did come in and do it. And they were in school, too. And so, you know, I look back at some of the students that have since graduated, and 00:51:00now started in their professional career. And I just wonder, like, you know, what was that experience, like, for them? You know, did it did it kind of beef them up a little bit for, for when they entered the working world, but working with college students, was more positive than it was stressful, to be honest.

GL: So, of all the things that you've done, I mean, you know, with your job, and in the work that you do for the EOC, I mean, tell me some of the things that you're, you're proud of, of your, of the work that you and your team did,

PVZ: I'm definitely proud of the amount of people we were able to serve, and provide a safe place to stay, the amount of people that didn't go back to the families to stay, you know, and I just, I feel good about that. Because, you know, in theory, or, you know, we were able to contain the spread, you know, we, when, when the chips were down, we were able to help, and that felt really good. 00:52:00And I remember writing Kim Langolf an email, because, you know, she, she was working all the time, all the time, like, I worked a lot, she was working all the time. And I remember telling her like, you know, I think what you did, it's not a stretch to say you probably saved some lives, right? Because she was doing the testing site, she was doing that the vaccination site when it happened. But for me personally, it was it was just like, you know, when you get a nice note, which, which wasn't super common, but you'd get a nice note saying, like, hey, appreciated during this time, you know, you're able to calm me down, and we were able to get through it. Or, or, you know, over the holidays, or when we were able to help facilitate like, Chancellor Leavitt came and dressed up as Santa Claus and brought some gifts for people and it brought tears to their eyes like. And so that type of stuff I'm really proud of, and then just the working relationships, like there's people I, you know, I only knew in name only before and now, there's some of my closest coworkers, you know, from across the, from across the university. And so, I think those are the things I'm most proud of, 00:53:00it's just that, you know, when it was really hard, and it got pretty dark for everyone at the university, like we just kept the machine running. And we, we, we made it as safe as possible for as many people as possible. Two things I want to talk about number one is the you know, you said, Chancellor Leavitt. Yup.

GL: You know dressed just about Santa Claus. I mean.

PVZ: Yeah.

GL: When was that?

PVZ: So that was right. So the year, the year that we basically all students were remote for remote learning for the most part. So what yeah, that would have been 22 into 21. So December 2020. And they I remember, the email subject was something like Andy Claus is coming to town. And he, you know, through channels of people, he reached out to myself and Marc Nylen and said, you know, hey, you know, I forget his, his spouse's name, but we'd like to give a gift. Karen 00:54:00Leavitt? Yes. Yes. And he'd did give a gift to everyone in isolation, quarantine. You let me know, you know, you let this person know how many people blah, blah, blah. And a staff member that works at them went to the bookstore. And, like, got very nice gifts, very nice gifts for, you know, a number of students that were staying over the Christmas holiday. And then he came and delivered them and Marc Nylen brought them up to the floor. And he gave them you know, he gave them to them in person. And, and that's when we had like, you know, at least one student like, you know, like, was really touched, like, started to cry because, you know, it's a hard time and especially then, like, you know, it's very hard time. So you didn't know so much like you don't like a lot of people were passing from COVID and these students were kind of just isolated away from their family as well, or their friends. And so that was yeah, 00:55:00that's a really, I guess, positive memory.

GL: These are students who were staying here during over the Christmas holiday?

PVZ: Yeah, yep. So since we've opened, we have not closed. There were I think two nights in there right before the holidays where we were able to close operations but we were ready to anytime we had staff ready. But we had no one in no one in residence. But over the last two years now we've had people stay over Christmas holiday over, you know, all through Hanukkah, all the major holidays, right? And New Years. And so what we were doing, you know, we did to gift their Chancellor Leavitt did the gifts. And then we would we would source materials from around campus. So like, for example, Reeve Union, Dylan Bram out of Reeve Union, he runs like late night activities, stuff like that. He got us all these 00:56:00paints, and canvases, coloring materials. The Counseling Center donated puzzles and books and stuff like that. In the first year, the first Christmas the first Thanksgiving, they even did like they would have their staff on those days do zoom yogas and stuff like that. And so we'd punch up this whole list of stuff, here's what you can do, how holidays in quarantine and isolation. And we have a suggested itinerary of stuff to do. Watch the 95th Macy's Day Parade with robots carrying the balloons and, and all this stuff, right? Have a zoom New Year's Eve party, you know, you know, watch all these movies. And then we list like all the NFL games that we're on for Thanksgiving and stuff like that. And we just tried our best to do that. And then pair that with dining would come in and do here's a turkey Thanksgiving dinner, here's a Christmas meal, here's special, like decorate your own Christmas cookies. You know, and so that those are the things 00:57:00that make me feel warm, you know, when we when you think about it is like each little part of people that involved and there's a whole stakeholder group that we still meet, they would do something to make the experience for students better, and it really worked.

GL: And these are the students who have to stay there for up to how many days?

PVZ: At the beginning of his 14 days, and then it dropped down to 10. And now it's five if you're not symptomatic, and you're vaccinated.

GL: And so these are the students who, once they move into Gruenhagen, they can't they have to go through there the length of stay?

PVZ: The length of stay until the CDC started thing putting in where you can test out after certain amount of days. But yeah, we had tons of students that stayed for full 14 days. You know, stayed through finals, you know, we worked with professors to accommodate finals materials. stayed through all sorts of things, holidays, everything.

GL: I had no idea you, you and your staff did the holiday things.

00:58:00

PVZ: Yeah, yeah, it's, um, you know, we've done it every major holiday. Yeah. And, you know, it was nice, we got a lot of, like, we got a nice letter this year, from a student because, you know, again, Dylan Bram had provided materials, they were, they were, I remember, they thanked us, but one of the things was they were able to walk out with an ornament that they made for each one of their friends and family members while they were in isolation and quarantine. So it's a nice little artifact, you know?

GL: So, tell me, how, how has your job changed since COVID, during or during COVID?

PVZ: Um, so, you know, on its face a lot of like, like I said, I had, I started with three reporting units, and due to low numbers, right, so we went from 3100 to 2100 students, and that changes the budget significantly. We cut those units out. And now, you know, in one sense, that's fine, because my time was 00:59:00completely filled with isolation and quarantine and other EOC matters. And, and those things haven't returned yet. Those functions of my position, obviously, it drastically changed how we do move-in. Now, there's certain things that we've gone back to for move-in like move-in is not the total boiled down version that it was the first time around. But also, you know, now my day to day is still heavily influenced or focused on isolation and quarantine. Now, there's been some very good times recently, you know, before Omicron Omicron, for example, if that's how you say it, I always say wrong, where we had very low census or very low, you know, population in isolation quarantine, where, you know, we didn't have to worry much, but now it's picked up again. And since we provide services for Ripon College and then the two other campuses so Fond du Lac and Fox campus, you know, without we're still seeing a good deal of numbers from Omicron as well so.

01:00:00

GL: At what point will you feel like, I mean, what has to happen for each feel like what can get back to normal?

PVZ: Um, that's a really, it's a really good question. It's really tough question to answer. I'm not sure. I don't, I think I think I just try to think of like, what's next? What's the next normal? Certainly, we'll, when we can, we'll bring back those other functions, you know, we'll bring back an artist in the department will bring back you know, more student roles, like the project managers that we had. But probably not until isolation, and quarantine is no longer needed, then it won't be quote, unquote, normal again, but it's become so normal to me. It's just become that is that is my job now, you know, that is part of my day to day. It's what it's, you know, what I do here so.

GL: Do you know anyone personally, since the, you know, the beginning, COVID? 01:01:00Who had other than the students, who had gotten pretty sick?

PVZ: Yes, yes. Um, you know, I've had friends that have gotten it, I've had friends that had gotten sick, you know, I have had family members that have gotten it. I've got family that have it. You know, had recently, I had an aunt who got it, like, kind of in the first wave and still doesn't ever taste back. You know? I'd say most of my extended family, you know, my internal unit, kind of the people that we hunkered down with, you know, fared very well. But, you know, my extended family, I think it ran through pretty quickly. You know, I've got associates are folks that, you know, like, their, their father passed away, you know, from COVID. But, but, for me, fortunately, no one very close or 01:02:00internally to me has passed from it.

GL: And, lastly, I mean, what has living and working during this time have, you know, what has it taught you about yourself?

PVZ: Um, I think that, you know, you can reach out to other people, and you can, you can, you can build a lot with other people. I think that's it, you know. I think of, I think of the things that have achieved or accomplished together, right, like, none of it's like, I just happen to be the person doing isolation, quarantine, but there's a, there's a whole team of people that are doing that. And the people on EOC, you know, the relationships I've built with any of those people, I could go to them now. And with confidence, say, what do you need? What can I do? What can you do this for me? Which wasn't the case before, right? And so I think it's given me a lot of confidence, because we've, you know, there's like, it's the old proverb of like, you acquire the strength that you overcome, 01:03:00you know, we've had to overcome a lot collectively. And, you know, you've had to look at people that were completely burned out from just from COVID and fatigue and, and say, Okay, well, let's, you know, we got to wring your hands together and figure out how this is gonna work. And we just, we just did it. And you and so for me, what I've taken away is a sense of, kind of, like warmth and in belief in other people, because we've just gotten through so much together, you know?

GL: And your kids are how old now?

PVZ: So I, let's see, seven. I've got a daughter named Kiara, or Kiki, she's seven. I've got my middle one jill, Josephine. She'll turn four in April. So she's three right now. And then, my youngest Regan, she turned one on December 31. So she's a New Years Eve baby. So it's, she's only one in what you know, kind of in the middle of COVID.

01:04:00

GL: What are you gonna tell your daughters? I mean, you know, the baby. About this time, you know, about what dad did? When she's able to understand.

PVZ: I think I'll I think I'll try to explain what it was like and how it was different, right? Like, I think about that a lot I think about their development, you know, especially for the three year old. You know, because at first it was like, oh, you can't even go on playgrounds, right? Like they had little signs up where they were closed. So I think about that a lot and what we'll talk about, and I think I'll just try to explain how it was a big shift for everyone all at once. And then it kind of started to flake and people interpreted differently and people had different capacities for risk or tolerances for risk. And so it landed differently for everyone. I think that's what I'll try to explain. You know, I Just think about, you know, 9/11 was in my 01:05:00formative years, and this is not like 9/11, but it's impacted a ton of people, right? You know, like, we talked about 911 forever and ever and ever, right? And which we should, that's good. I think I think that, you know, for at least my oldest, it'll be like that. And for the younger two, I don't, I don't know, I'll just try to tell him like, this is what we did and, and this is what it was like. And I'll try to tell him how it was really scary in the beginning and we just learned more. And so I think, you know, just see it through, like I think that's what I'll try to say, is we all just tried to see it through.

GL: I'm gonna actually have you. I'm gonna ask you this question again, because nine, I mean, I totally get it 9/11. We all were, we watched it happen this, this was, this was our country. But we didn't really we weren't there.

PVZ: Right.

GL: You know.

PVZ: Yep.

GL: We're right here.

PVZ: Absolutely.

GL:

And you're right here.

PVZ: Yep.

01:06:00

GL: So tell me again, what are you, what are you going to, how will you tell your daughters what dad did? Use this.

PVZ: What I did? I mean I'll tell him that he just kind of I tried to just do my best, take the skills I had from working in Residence Life, and apply them to COVID, right? I just, you know, I, what I did was I tried to run a residence life hall or facility or community, for the people that needed it, you know, and we tried to make it as comfortable as possible, in a very uncomfortable time in, depending on what part of the timeline, you're talking about a scary time. And I'll make sure to tell them about everyone else, you know, like, like, there's a lot of other people that were impacted and, and I'll just try to tell them the 01:07:00lessons that I learned. And so I'll tell him that I went forward, and I tried to do it. And I just trusted that, you know, it was gonna work. Because we had to figure out a way to make it work. And that that's probably what I'll tell him is I just tried to build a facility that supported the goal.

GL: We talked about a lot of things. I mean, is there anything else that you would like to add?

PVZ: You know, I think what I would add is that there's you know, we had talked about this earlier a little bit, but there's a lot of people that they'll, they'll, there you know, there won't be they won't have like an eight by 10, black and white headshot up on the wall in Dempsey. And that's okay. It's not necessary, but there's a lot of people that did a lot of small but kind of heroic things for the circumstances, right? So people like Marc Nylen, Becca 01:08:00Bjorkman, Sophie Chairtose, or Sophie Kaphenst, and Chris Wagner, those people that that really, you know, internally, we it was just like, the four of us some days, you know. And then the people on the EOC, I mean, that's a whole nother thing, right? And so I just think if to answer that question, honestly, it's like, it's like those other people, right? Like, I'm gonna miss names, but people like Chief, people like Kim Langolf, you know, Angie Holly, you know, it's just, it's just all those people, Chris Tarmann. And you'll have the list, I'm sure people, you're going to talk to all these people. But like, it's just everyone kind of just went for it. And none of us really knew, but there was just this sense from each person, like we're gonna figure it out. And we have to figure it out. And, you know, there'd be different times where people were just absolutely fried. And I think that's important to know, you know, that those 01:09:00people those people kept, kept the, you know, the black and gold machine running. And I want people to know that, like, that's what I would say is like, there was just so many people that just were doing ordinary things. And they were just answering the call, when it was put out that's what I would say.

GL: Well, you need to put that, put yourself in that list on that list. You know what I mean? You answered the call.

PVZ: Well, thank you. I appreciate that.

GL: All right. Well. Thank you for sharing your stories with us. We appreciate your contribution to the campus COVID stories at UW Oshkosh.

PVZ: Thank you.